Rachel’s Tavern- Shakesville Comment on Whiteness and Racial Awareness
- Arrested for BAHWB (Being at Home While Black)
- John Hope Franklin Has Died
- Bottles, Breasts, and Mothering “Choices”
- NAACP Class Action Lawsuit on Subprime Loans
- We Have a Future Blogger
- I’m Afraid President Obama, Himself, is a Bit of Coward on the Race Issue
- Highly Skilled US Immigrants are Emigrating: What’s the deal?
- Troll Comments Galore
- Mark’s Spinach Face
Mar
13
Back By Popular Demand: Pt3 A few Notes on Women in Black/White Interracial Relationships
Filed Under Black/African American Issues, Family Issues, Gender and Sexism, Interracial Relationships, Original Essays and Analysis, Race and Racism, Sociology, Uncategorized by Rachel
Update:? Well folks I am very happy that I discovered the way back machine because I have been able to capture several posts that I thought were gone forever.? Here’s a classic post, and I do believe it was popular at the time I put it up.? Unfortunately, I lost most of my comments from 2005-2006, but this is worth discussing again since I keep getting comments about the race and gender dynamics of IRs.? I also think it would be interesting to replicate this from an Asian American perspective since this has also been a hot topic lately.
Pt 3 of the Snippets from my Dissertation. Keep in mind all of these posts are snippets of a much larger piece of work, so feel free to add to things, ask questions or give critiques. I’d love to hear feedback from people. In my dissertation, I focused on family approval of Black/White interracial relationships. The data is based on 39 interviews with people in interracial relationships (conducted individually) and 5 interviews with the relatives of some of these couples, so this is where most of the focus will be.
My research is most concerned with how contemporary racism also called colorblind racism or laissez faire racism affects family approval of interracial relationships. However, we cannot understand how contemporary racism works without acknowledging the extent to which racism is interconnected with other forms of oppression. Multiracial feminist theorist Patricia Hill Collins refers to these complex connections as the matrix of domination. After interviewing couples it is evident that opposition to interracial marriage is not just about racism. The issues of gender and controlling Black women’s, White women’s, and Black men’s sexuality is ever present in the discourses that families use to oppose interracial relationships. One of the most obvious ways gender and race work together to affect interracial relationships is in the likelihood of intermarrying. Currently about 70% of Black/White marriages are between Black men and White women, which contrasts with the early half of the 1900s when most Black White marriages were between Black women and White men. Below I have highlighted a few of the primary issues facing Black women and White women in interracial relationships.
5 Dilemmas Facing Black Women in IRs
1) Of particular relevance in my interviews are controlling images of Black women’s beauty and sexuality. Many Black women married to White men worried that the stereotypes of Black women as sexually promiscuous would affect how their White partners’ families viewed them, and in some cases it very clearly had a negative impact on a White family’s willingness to accept interracial relationships. Black women also worried that the greater value attached to White women’s fair skin and straight hair put them at a disadvantage in the marriage market with both Black men and White men. There was often an underlying worry that even though they were partnered their choices to date or marry Black men and White men were much more limited.
2&3) The other two controlling images that shaped the experiences of the Black women I interviewed were the belief that Black women are domineering “bitches” and “gold diggers.” Many Black women in interracial relationships felt pressure to carefully monitor their behavior, so they didn’t come off as “the typical Black bitch who doesn’t know her place.” The idea that Black women who marry White men do it for money was also mentioned as a common concern. This affected both how they dealt with their family members and those of their spouses.
4) Family approval of interracial relationships is most likely lower for Black women than it is for Black men. Black women’s families had more objections to interracial relationships than their Black male counterparts. Many relatives of Black women (especially male relatives) tried to protect their daughters/sisters/cousins from White men who they felt would sexually exploit Black women. Given the history of White male sexual violence against Black women this is not surprising. However, family opposition also has the affect of denying Black women’s agency because their judgment is held up to much more scrutiny than Black men in interracial relationships.
5) Black women who entered interracial relationships also worried about being alone, a phenomnon facing many Black women today. Since the gender ratio of African Americans is imabalanced, many Black women saw White men as a “whole new world of men” who they could date and marry. Considering White men was a way for some Black women to keep from being alone.
5 Dilemmas Facing White Women in IRs
1)When it comes to Black/White interracial relationships my research indicates, that White women face the most family opposition of all of the race/gender groups. The tactics used to show opposition in White women’s families are often more extreme. They appear to be the group most likely to be disowned or disinvited when they enter interracial relationships.
2) Many White women indicate that their relatives feel Black men were sexually aggressive, threatening, and irresponsible. When White families opposed White women’s interracial relationships, they often felt that they were protecting White women from Black men and from White women’s own naivety or passivity.
3) Unlike Black women who are stereotyped as “bitchy” and “aggressive,” White women are stereotyped as naive, passive, and weak. This controlling image of White women affects how White women’s relatives and their Black male partners’ relatives view their relationships. Many White women’s relatives felt the need to intervene because they think White women are too naive to know what they are getting themselves into and too weak to defend themselves. Their Black partners’ relatives worry that White women will be too weak to defend their partners or their biracial children against racism, and they worry that Black men have chosen these White women because they are looking for a women who will tolerate a subservient position, something many Black families think Black women will not do.
4) White women’s families not only question Black men’s sexuality, but they also question the sexuality of White women who enter interracial relationships. Even though White women overall may be held up as the epitome of beauty and sexual attractiveness, White women who had relationships with Black men were not viewed in this way. The most common notion is that White women who have relationships with Black men are sexually loose or tainted.
5) Some White women’s families worry that an interracial relationship would make them less attractive to White men after they were left all alone by Black men. Implicit in this belief is that White women’s interracial relationships won’t last, and when they do end, White women won’t be able to find anyone to date or marry.
I have much more I can add. I guess it will be out in a book someday, but I think this can be a jumping off point.
Comments
31 Responses to “Back By Popular Demand: Pt3 A few Notes on Women in Black/White Interracial Relationships”
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I think that is very interesting reserch. I know a few of my mother (white) relatives refused to come to her wedding to my (black) father and my grandfather wore an awful suit in protest. My mother also has experienced more resistance to the marriage from other white people. Some stopped talking to her when they realized my dark skin was from my black father (where was it supposed to have come from). I wonder what the dynamics of children of interracial relationships will be in regard to marriage and if it will differ based on the race that the bi-racial child most identifies with.
The common theme I see here is sexism to keep women in a particularl place. For the black woman there is supposedly a perception that she is promiscuous. HAH! That is a media stereotype, a white media stereotypes. I grew up with black girls, everywhere, EVERYWHERE! The biggest thing I heard was how prude they were and hence I was by association. When a black girl turned up pregnant, it was shame on everyone. But it was a forced shame, a shame that seemed like it was being put out there but not really controlling anyone. In my high school about four or maybe five black girls had babies, and this was a predominately black high school a graduating class of 490 students. Maybe one girl did not return to school, but I can remember four for sure came back to school. And I thought they were the shyt. Not for having a baby but for how grown up they seemed. So confident and never allowed gossip to keep them down. Actually, I think the sneers came from mostly the teachers (a collection of mostly black women, some men, and one or two white women). They (the teachers) would openly get their jabs in if say the girl did not turn in her homework or something. But unlike the media image of the white high school, there was not this mass closing of ranks and ousting anyone. If there was, I was not privy to the fact and was allowed to move about in my ignorance. This was 1978-1981. Then again, I think predominately black high schools (at least then) had more self-esteem than whites. Or at least in my opinion, because when I went to work around whites and heard white girl stories I really thought their worries were minimum. It could have been class too, but there were not any predominately white andpoor high schools that I knew of.
Sluts were something white girls were, never seen just heard about. White girls had oral sex and black girls did not, so I was told. By the mid eighties I learned that was indeed a stereotype. Whores were older women of both all colors. Prostitutes were simply a means to live and not necessarily demonized. Actually, it was the pimp who was the awful one, stealing 90% of the money and abusing the woman. That is the world I grew up in. For the white woman, again sexism. She is treated like she cannot handle her own business and what is used to attempt to control her? The myth of the sexually deviant black man. HAH! Again. The first few times I had problems with sex and aggression and fear came from white men. Of course, I did have one stalker black ex husband but even he grew bored with it as soon as he got a new girlfriend. The two white stalker boyfriends I had would pop up month after month after month as if they could not take no for an answer. And what color was the freak who wanted to put his penis in my behind? Ding ding ding……WHITE!
This is fascinating and also sort of depressing because, as CM suggests, women seem to get shamed or made to feel fear if they cross the line either way – the guys, and especially the white guys (surprise surprise), seem to risk the least.
My theory on why white women face the most family opposition: because they can produce white babies. I developed this theory after reading novel upon Latin American novel about miscegenation in which everyone was obsessed with the hope of producing a white baby. See also Kate Chopin’s short story, “Desiree’s Baby.”
Natalie said, “I wonder what the dynamics of children of interracial relationships will be in regard to marriage and if it will differ based on the race that the bi-racial child most identifies with.”
I’ll put up a post on children from a while back. I haven’t really seen any studies on how the biracial child’s identity affects family dynamics, but my impression is that most relatives think of the children as black, but there are some who prefer a biracial identity. I did get the sense that of those who had preferences Blacks preferred a black identity, and whites preferred a biracial identity. I couldn’t really find anybody who called the kids white.
CM said, “The common theme I see here is sexism to keep women in a particularl place.”
Yes, and family is a huge source of that. The family often does this in the name of “protecting their daughter.”
Prof Zero said, “My theory on why white women face the most family opposition: because they can produce white babies.”
The sexual reproduction part is huge; that’s also why the “what about the children” discourse is so prevalent when the subject is IRs.
To all of you,
Thanks for your perspective on women in B/W IRs. However, I do think the controlling images of white and Black women are crucial to white supremacist capitalistic society because, as one astute lady pointed out, that only white women produce white babies in order to keep the status quo going. There’s a saying in white supremacist America that a white woman can give birth to blacks, but a Black woman cannot give birth to a white baby. It’s a way to keep white male supremacy and sexual freedom intact. So, when a white man have relationship with a Black woman, he can walk away at anytime and not support neither her nor the baby, wheras white woman’s sexuality is tightly controlled by her family. It’s ironic with the media focus on open white female sexuality(Anna Nicole, Paris Hilton, etc.), they are the focus of more protection and control. Wheras stereotypes of Black women are used to justify oppression, exclusion from the white family because such stereotypes are the basis of the ideology of white family, white racial purity and white privilege.
What are your thoughts on this?
Stephanie B.
Rachel.
“Yes, and family is a huge source of that. The family often does this in the name of protecting their daughter.
Yes.
Ergo, protecting the daughters for different reasons.
White daughters: from the rapacious black male (myth of the black rapist)
Black daughters: from the rapacious white male (reality based on historical documentation)
On the issue of black women being less open to sexual experimentation.
Many black women subjugate and negate their sexuality for fear of being seen as hyper-sexual, licentious and morally lax.
This fear keeps them from exploring their sexual sides of being a woman, thus suffocating and stifling a very important and healthy aspect of their sexual lives. This also leads to anxiety, stress and fear of trying out new sexual outlets for fear they will be stigmatized as Jezebels and sexually promiscuous.
Great topic!!!!!
I have read that in the U.K. interracial marriage rates are much higher the rate they are here in the U.S. and that mixed race people are much more likley to marry whites also.
Here in the U.S. mixed race African Americans still mostly marry other African Americans but I guess that mixed African Americans marry whites and other non black ethic groups at a much higher rate. Is my guess right? In my experience I have found that lighter skinned African Americans seem to be interracially married more often. If we consider Black Purto Ricans as a part of the African American group then I have really seems that the lighter skinned African American one is, the higher the incidence of getting interracially married in the future. Here are some stats from the UK which tend to follow the pattern.
“Most mixed-race relationships in the UK involve black men and white women. A 1997 study found that half of black men and one-third of black women are in relationships with a white partner. ”
http://www.handbag.com/relationships/couples/colourblind/
“The most common inter-ethnic marriages were between White and Mixed race people, 26 per cent of all inter-ethnic marriages. Marriages between a White person and someone who described their ethnic group as Other were the next most common (15 per cent), followed by White and Black Caribbean marriages (12 per cent), and White and Indian marriages (11 per cent).
People from the Mixed ethnic group were the most likely to be married to someone outside their ethnic group (78 per cent).”
http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2005/03/22/new-report-on-interracial-marriage-in-uk/
>If we consider Black Purto Ricans as a part of the African American group
1. how many Puerto Ricans of predominantly African descent are in the US mainland population? As a poorer margianilized group on the island, my hunch is that they are less likely to come to the mainland.
2. lumping this suybgroup in with African Americans is an error, I think – having never met a PR who ID’d primarily as anything other than PR or Latino.
>People from the Mixed ethnic group were the most likely to be married to someone outside their ethnic group
I dont understand this quote from the article – by definition, unless someone of a mixed ancestry dates/marries someone of tyhe exact same ancestry, wouldn’t ANYONE they date/marry qualify as an IR?
I also question what the UK considers “black.” Is it only those of African or African-Carribbean descent? Does it inclde those of Indian or Pakistani descent? See, this is why I hate framing discussions by “white” and “black.”
Lyonside Hello again
Thankyou for your responce. You know more about PR than me but here are some things I have learned.
1 How many Puerto Ricans of predominantly African descent are in the US mainland population?
#I consider all of Puerto rico as part of the U.S. Most of them I would consider mixed Black. But then again I also consider the Lumbee , Melungeon and all the othe Tri racial isolates of the American south as part Black also. Heather Loclear is related to this group.
#2 If one can find a black ansestor you are Black to me. Most PRs fit in this box. The Klansmen would think the same too….
I love the expasiveness of the one drop rule. Vin Deisle is Black to me along with Jenifer Lopez and Paula Abdul. Sorry for butchering names with my awful spelling but you get the point.
This stat is from wikepidia
An analysis of blood groups and protein markers determined that the Puerto Rican gene pool was comprised of 45% European contribution, 37% African, and 18% Native American.
This one is from Frank Sweet
Puerto Ricans average 50-50 Afro-European admixture, but they also display a wide range of skin tones Scatter diagrams of Puerto Ricans or Dominicans center on the 50-percent line, with decreasing dot densities stretching all the way to both of the 100-percent axes. Haitians produce scatter diagrams resembling those of Black Americans.
Essays on the Color Line and the One-Drop Rule
by Frank W Sweet
June 8, 2004
Your point seems kind of correct about mixed people. I was confused too but they explained that 86 percent of mixed race men married Whites and 70 percent of mixed race women married Whites. Most IRs in britan contain White people.
Most of the Mixed in The UK are mixed with what they call Black or Carribian or African. Apparently they divide Black from the other African groups I guess that those are the most native blacks. I will later try to find the sight again which explains it.
Interracial Power!
Lyonside said,
March 15, 2007 @ 8:26 am
>People from the Mixed ethnic group were the most likely to be married to someone outside their ethnic group
I dont understand this quote from the article – by definition, unless someone of a mixed ancestry dates/marries someone of tyhe exact same ancestry, wouldnt ANYONE they date/marry qualify as an IR?
I had the same reaction as Lyonside . Explain please .
“#2 If one can find a black ansestor you are Black to me. Most PRs fit in this box. The Klansmen would think the same too.
I love the expasiveness of the one drop rule. Vin Deisle is Black to me along with Jenifer Lopez and Paula Abdul. Sorry for butchering names with my awful spelling but you get the point.”
“#2 If one can find a black ansestor you are Black to me.”
That statement borders on illogical, Mike Reynolds. So, if a person has a black grandparent, that automatically makes them black? What if they have a white grandparent, does that automatically make them white?”
“Most PRs fit in this box. The Klansmen would think the same too.”
So, you ascribed to the racist ideology of the KKK? You do realize the ODR was created to allow white fathers not to acknowledge the half-black/half-white children they fathered with black women during slavery. That white America would not acknowledge the mixed race children of slavemaster and slave enabled whites to lump mixed-blood “black” people with black people who did not have a preponderance of white blood.
White America refused to recognize mixed-blood people as a distinct group who could truly be neither classified as “black” nor as “white”.
Being of mixed-blood, they were what they were: the children of mainly white men and black women.
Rationality and sanity would dictate that anyone who was 1/2 black and 1/2 white was no longer an “either, or” person.
Rationality and sanity would dictate that a child of a white man and a black women was of mixed-blood. Any other attempt to say otherwise was to not accept the reality standing right before them.
“I love the expasiveness of the one drop rule. Vin Deisle is Black to me along with Jenifer Lopez and Paula Abdul. Sorry for butchering names with my awful spelling but you get the point.”
So, therefore, according to your grasp of the ODR, ANYONE can be a black person, even if the “black ancestor” was, shall we say, 8 generations ago?
The black blood is that powerful that it can stand up to say, a sea of white blood? A sea of Asian blood? A sea of Latino blood?
When, pray tell, Mike Reynolds, does the black blood get to have a day of rest, and not have to constantly fight against those overwhelming oceans and oceans of other bloods out there that just can’t seem to hold their own against the all-powerful and ferocious black blood?
“If we consider Black Purto Ricans as a part of the African American group then I have really seems that the lighter skinned African American one is, the higher the incidence of getting interracially married in the future.”
Why are you grouping Puerto Ricans with black Americans? So, am I to assume that you will be soon grouping black Americans with Guatemalans? Humong? Tagalog?
And I can assure you, Puerto Ricans DO NOT self-identify with black Americans.
And understand, Mike Reynolds, that many “black-skinned” Puerto Ricans DO still live on the mainland. Having less access to better education, having less access to better jobs/careers, having less access to better health and money, they would be least likely to have the means to come to America, unlike many “white-skinned” Puerto Ricans who are most likely to be more accepted by white America.
Sorta like the “white” Cubans, wouldn’t you think?
And contrary to the fantasy of “West Side Story”, most Puerto Ricans don’t ALL look like the actors in that movie.
A good portion of them do look like they can pass for a black American, at least phenotypically-wise.
Just ask Piri Thomas, OK.
“And understand, Mike Reynolds, that many black-skinned Puerto Ricans DO still live on the mainland.”
Clarification. That was supposed to read:
“And understand, Mike Reynolds, that many “black-skinned” Puerto Ricans DO still live on the island Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.”
Heck, Puerto Ricans do not even have the right to vote in presidential elections.
Sheesh.
Well, at least they don’t have to pay federal taxes.
Not to continue the derailment, but Rosie Perez produced a documentary about Puerto Rico, searching for parts of her family, etc. and it touched on colorism, racial divisions and disparities based on phenotype, etc. I only saw part of it, but it jived with my husband’s experience. His family regularly “passes” for white, usually Italian. His father has even faked being Italian for part of his life, and GOD FORBID you imply he’s not white.
Both of my parents in law are of obviously mixed background – and by that I mean, European Spanish, Taino native, and African. There is an oral and implied tradition of Sephardic Jew in the not-to-distant past in both their families (most likely my MIL – gotta love a maiden name like Guzman), and if any of them have African ancestry, it is not immediately apparent in their phenotypes. There’s no way that they share cultural/ethnic/historical links to mainland African-Americans, and I don’t know one African-American person who would lump them in with other African-Americans. Why does it matter anyway? Do the IR stats not stand up unless you add Latino ethnicities?
Mike Reynolds, please, let’s stay on topic. We do not need any further derailment of what the discussion centers on:
How families of black and white women subjugate, disregard and attempt to control the sexual agency, the sexual autonomy, the sexual rights of both black and white women.
Keep in mind, black women having a different history in this country from white women, will have a different approach/outlook to IRs (especially when they to face the ire of some black men who have a hypocritical stance on IRs [okay for them to marry outside of the race, but, unforgivably so for the black woman to marry outside of the race]. Black men have no more right to chain black women to the black community as gatekeepers, since black women have just as much right to exercise, and expand their dating/marriage options, just as much as anyone else.
And since black women do continue to have to fight against racism from white America [just as black men do], black women still have to fight against the oppression of sexism from all men as well, including the sexism of some black men who cringe in fear of seeing black women having more fulfilling lives, when those black women give men of other races a chance.
So, Mike Reynolds, how do you feel about a black female relative marrying a white man?
Do you feel that she has a right to happiness [providing the white male/non-black male is a real man, and not some useless parasitical entity that only wants to use your black female relative up, and then throw her into the garbage dumpster, when he is finished with her], with whomever she decides to marry? Would you have a problem with a black female relative marrying a man of another race who can provide for her, love her, and honor her?
Hmm?
Tell me , Mike Reynolds, do you have a “master mentality” towards the black women of your family, “Do as I say, but, you had better not do as I do”, way of thinking?
Please, tell me, tell me true.
Ann my Sister
So, Mike Reynolds, how do you feel about a black female relative marrying a white man?
When I was a teen untill today I have always encuraged my female relatives to marry and Date White or other race men to expand their marrige possibilities. I wanted my sister to date some of my other race friends but she chose only African American men.
I would rather see Black Women with other race men than Black men in IRs becase it is my predudice guess that if a Black woman is in an IR she is more likely to be in love. I find Black women in IRs to be very attractive. The quality of not restricting oneself to one race I find beutiful. I celebrate everytime I find Black women with the guts to have an intergrated additude.
I have work with an African American male who has the exact attitude that Black Women should not date White men but that it is more ok for a Black man. It is an incredible additude. This guy also loves farrakhan and is proud that his 2 baby’s mammas do not make him pay child support. Last week he said that it was becase they were strong Black Women that they did not charge him. He pays what he can but can you believe his aditude.
To Michael and others
I think this answers your question. They are pointing out that Black mixed race people marry whites at 78%. The UK is really mixing things up. Admin Sorry if the clip from the site is too long I’m in a hurry Thankyou.
http://www.mixedmediawatch.com/2005/03/22/new-report-on-interracial-marriage-in-uk/
People from the Mixed ethnic group were the most likely to be married to someone outside their ethnic group (78 per cent). The Mixed ethnic group is relatively small and there are limited opportunities to marry someone from the same ethnic group. However, mixed race people are often married to someone from a related ethnic group. For example, among men who described their own ethnic group as Mixed – White and Black Caribbean, 76 per cent were married to White women, 8 per cent to Black Caribbean women and 11 per cent to Mixed White and Black Caribbean women.
Mike Reynolds.
Thank you so much for your response to my question.
Of particular note is the following comment you made:
“I have work with an African American male who has the exact attitude that Black Women should not date White men but that it is more ok for a Black man. It is an incredible additude. This guy also loves farrakhan and is proud that his 2 babys mammas do not make him pay child support. Last week he said that it was becase they were strong Black Women that they did not charge him. He pays what he can but can you believe his aditude.”
That this so-called man cares not a damn for the children that he brought into the world, and that he considers the children’s black mothers as “strong Black Women”, ergo, mules, shows his contempt for them. That he would treat these two black women the way he does in ways he would not have the guts to treat women of other races shows how he is in no way a real man.
A wolf takes better care of its own pups.
But, let these same black women even so much as look at a man of another race, let these same black women attempt to broaden their horizons and desire to better themselves by getting away from this human that looks like a man, but, in reality, is not a man, then they are all of a sudden, “gold-diggers”, “bitches”, “hos”.
As much as black women work hard to make ends meet, as much as black women (with all of the racism and sexism that we face), and we still do not give in and give up, that some black men have the audacity to castigate and denigrate us shows how less of a man some of them are, especially those who create children and don’t have the balls to take care of them.
And on the subject of IRs, any black man who attempts to tell a black woman whom she can or cannot marry, should check himself first. If more black women would practice self-preservation, instead of so much blind loyalty to black men and the black community, there would be many black women who would be happier. Since some black men take so many black women for granted, one day those same black men (those who know who they are) are going to wake up and find that that well has run dry, and by then many black women will have moved on (hopefully) and found happiness, joy and peace in their lives with men who love, cherish and honor them for all the beautiful qualities they have.
Any black man who cops an attitude as to whom a black woman marries, but, he does next to nothing to take care of his own responsibilites, can expect to have nothing to say when black women finally wise up and live their lives for themselves instead of wasting their lives away on so-called men such as the one you spoke of. Only then, when black women let go of their blind loyalty that does none of them any good, and when they finally start to open their lives up to men (no matter what the man’s race), men who truly love them, then will those black men who took black women for granted so long finally realize what they are losing.
And by then, black men such as the one you spoke of, will have no one to blame but themselves.
If he is not taking care of his children, if he is not contributing to the support and help of the black community, if he is being nothing but a parasitic entity, then he of all people can say nothing about the personal decision of whom a black woman will spend her life with.
Gold-diggers.
Not black women.
Bitches.
Not black women.
Hos.
Nope.
Black women are none of the above.
But, it does not take much to figure out who is.
A well-known black man said these words in 1964 about the black man’s taking the black woman for granted. About the black men (those who know who they are), continually crying for respect from everyone around them, but, on the other hand, showing the least amount of respect for those who have had his back for centuries, for generations.
And that person who has had his back in many ways than he can remember, is the black woman.
The black men (those who mistreat and disrespect the black woman), need to heed and live by this great man’s words:
“The black man is going around saying he wants respect; well, the black man will never get anybody’s respect until he first learns to respect his own women! The black man needs to start today to shelter and protect and respect his black women!”
Malcolm X, from “The Autobiography of Malcolm X”, as told to Alex Haley, Ballantine Books, New York, 1965, pg. 241.
If more black women would practice self-preservation, instead of so much blind loyalty to black men and the black community, there would be many black women who would be happier. Since some black men take so many black women for granted, one day those same black men (those who know who they are) are going to wake up and find that that well has run dry, and by then many black women will have moved on (hopefully) and found happiness, joy and peace in their lives with men who love, cherish and honor them for all the beautiful qualities they have.
Ann, you made me think again about the need for Black, Asian, Latina and Native American feminisms separate but related to White feminisms. Here is Michele Wallace, as relevant today as she was in 1978:
“Both Davis and Giovanni represented the very best black women had to offer, or were allowed to offer, during the Black Movement. They carved out two paths for women who wished to be active. Davis’ was Do-it-for-your-man. Giovanni’s was Have-a-baby [...] Unfortunately, Davis set a precedent for black female revolutionary action as action that could never be self-generated. [] But they put more energy into the fight against Women’s Liberation than into anything else. Hardly a week passed in the late sixties and early seventies when there wasn’t an article on how black women felt that Women’s Liberation was irrelevant to them because they were already liberated. [] The black woman had been rendered invisible. It could only be said with certainty that she hated white women, hated Women’s Liberation, that she was having babies for the revolution, and that she wanted a man who would provide for her and keep her in a manner to which she had never been accustomed. She became a distinctly revolutionary creature. [] She seemed to think this suicidal course would win her black man back. It drove him further away. In the past the black woman had always provided the black man with an atmosphere in which he was treated as the equal of any man. That included resisting him when he was wrong. Now the black woman was making excuses for him, treating him like a very bad child and herself like a doormat. What use had he for her now? She seemed to make his inferiority a certainty by her existence. [] It can’t be for love of children. I am inclined to believe it is because the black woman has no legitimate way of coming together with other black women, no means of self-affirmation — in other words, no women’s movement, and therefore no collective ideology. Career and success are still the social and emotional disadvantages to her that they were to white women in the fifties. There is little in the black community to reinforce a young black woman who does not have a man or a child and who wishes to pursue a career. It is extremely difficult to assert oneself when there remains some question of one’s basic identity. [] The Women’s Movement redefined womanhood for white women in a manner that allowed them to work, to be manless, but still women. [] But the black woman, who had pooh-poohed the Women’s Movement, was left with only one activity that was not considered suspect: motherhood. A baby could counteract the damaging effect a career might have on her feminine image. A baby could even be a substitute for a man. [...] Her life had been simplified. Instead of confronting the problems that are presently repressing the black family, instead of battling with her fear of success, she could pursue her individual course which would allow her to make a provisional peace with herself. [] Some young black women are beginning to be honest about seeing themselves as victims rather than superwomen. [...] They become angry with black men, black people, blackness; it is simply a new way of blaming someone else for their underdevelopment. It rarely occurs to them that if things are not going well, they ought to take a leadership role in correcting them. The first impulse of upwardly mobile black women to pursue and advanced education, a higher salary, to become professional is not motivated by a desire to improve the lot of their race, but by a desire to break away from all its accessories of humiliation and guilt. [] Their problems arise from the fact that they are living in the transformed world of the liberated woman at the same time they continue to scorn liberation. But liberation is nothing more than responsibility, responsibility for setting the tone of one’s own life and standing by it. [] I think that the black woman thinks of her history and her condition as a wound which makes her different and therefore special and therefore exempt from human responsibility. [...] She feels powerless to do anything about her condition or anyone else’s. Her solution is simply not to participate, or to participate on her own very limited basis. [] Yes, it is very important that we never forget the tragedy of our history or how racist white people have been or how the black man has let us down. But all of that must be set in its proper perspective. It belongs to the past and we must belong to the future. The future is something we can control. When I began this book, I thought it would about what the black woman is, but this book turned out to be about what has happened to her. She has yet to become what she is. [] Lately, Ive noticed the appearance of a number of black womens organizations and conferences. The middle-class black woman in particular is beginning to address herself to feminist issues. But everything Ive seen so far has been an imitation of what white feminists have done before. But I havent seen black women make any meaningful attempt to differentiate between their problems and the problems of white women and, most important, there seems to be no awareness of how black women have been duped by the Myth of the Superwoman. [] Every now and then someone still mentions that white women are going to rip them off if they join the Womens Movement that is, white women will use their support to make gains and then not share with the black women. Unfortunately, this is probably true. It would be true of any movement the black woman joined in her present condition, that is, without some clear understanding of her priorities. The black woman needs an analysis. She belongs to the only group in this country which has not asserted its identity. [] Early in 1978 there was a series of articles in The New York Times on the changes in the black community since 1968. It covered the Civil Rights Movement, the Black Movement, the economic and social situation for blacks today. Never once did it mention the contribution black women made to the Civil Rights Movement. The article spoke of three Americas: one white, one middle-class black, one poor black. No particular notice was given to the fact that poor black America consists largely of black women and children. It was as if these women and children did not exist. []This history of the period has been written and will continue to be written without us. The imperative is clear: Either we will make history or remain the victims of it.
Donna Darko.
I do want very much for black women to learn of and recognize the many unknown contributions that black women have made time and time again in this country. And I do want for black women to realize how desparately they need, as Michelle Wallace pointed out at the end of her book, “Black Macho and the Myth of the Super Woman”, that black women need to write THEIR OWN HISTORY, and not to continue to let anyone write our own history for us. That is what I meant by self-preservation as well.
And I agree wholeheartedly with Michelle on this quote from her book:
“In the past the black woman had always provided the black man with an atmosphere in which he was treated as the equal of any man. That included resisting him when he was wrong.”
Black women need to return to this and stop being dormats for black men, or for any man for that matter. Black women need to go back to challenging black men to be men. If many black women can prevail against the racism AND sexism that we face in this white-run country, then, surely, black men can prevail as well. And that means not letting a black man into her life who will drag her down to a level of degredation. If she must stand and be a woman, then he (the black man) must stand and be a man.
Black women should not see themselves as victims, and definately not as Superwomen. They are neither of those images. And, yes, the future is something black women alone can control as to what they will become, as opposed to what they have reacted to that has been done to them.
The black woman of today must become proactive, not remain reactive. For, only then can she start to build her own reality that can truly represent what she is and can, become.
For, as long as we allow white men, white women, black men, or anyone to tell their idea of what a black women is, or has been, in America, we will continue to be pawns at the mercy of all the negative stereotypes, lies and myths that the non-black woman world has been espousing about us for so long.
Black women have been feminists in this country before there ever was a term to describe the very act of feminism. Black women during slavery and segregation were feminist when they spoke against slavery, and when they spoke against Jim Crow segregation. Of course, being black women, many people did not heed the value of what black women said. No one listened to black women when they fought against the lynchings of black men, women and children, (except for the many black men who worked with black women to put an end to lynchings), mainly the people whose race was doing all of the lynchings, and could have stopped this inhumane barbarity. No one listened when black women spoke and fought against rapes of black women by white men, (except the many black men who spoke out against the rapes of black women and black girls), even many white women would not listen when black women implored of them to work towards the end of rape and degradation of black women, by asking white women to take their white men to task for these acts of barbarism.
But, that did not stop black women from championing their causes through the years. And it still has not stopped some black women from continuing to speak the truth, no matter who hates to hear the truth.
I am advocating that black women take the proverbial bull by the horns and create their own image of who they are. Their own analysis of who they are. Their own understanding of what their priorities are.
Learning and understanding their history, would be a momentous step in that direction for black women.
When you do not know your history, you will be bound to commit the same past mistakes over, and over, again.
Not knowing your history puts you at a huge disadvantage.
Not knowing both the good and the bad, puts you at anyone’s mercy to say and perpetuate anything, and everything they can against you.
Black women in America are terribly in need of asserting their 0WN identity. Not someone else’s.
Only black women can speak for themselves. Only black women with their unique history in this country can create from themselves what kind of woman they will present not just to the world, but, most importantly, what kind of woman they will create and present to themselves. Not a stand-by-your-man woman. Not a have-a-baby-out-of-wedlock woman. Neither type of those examples serves to create an identity of a black woman who has come to terms with her history in this country, neither do those two examples serve to create an indentity that speaks truly of ALL black women. Until black women come to terms with the need to create an identity that is positive, capable, creative, resourceful (all of which many, many black women have been throughout the long history of this country), until then, black women will be at the mercy of someone else’s idea of what they think a black woman is, of what they think a black woman can only aspire to be, of what they think only a black woman can be. Black women can only find it in themselves to be what they can be. The resourcefulness, the creativity, the major impact that many black women have had on this country has sadly been lost from the minds of many young black women. Many of them can not even begin to know of the huge accomplishments that so many black women have done in this country, because so many of those young girls do not know their proud history.
White women know of their history in this country. Well, some of them do. White women know of their image in this country.
But, how many young black girls, or young black women, know of their proud history in this country? The major impact that black women have had on the movement to abolish slavery, the movement to abolish Jim Crow segregation, the many unsung and unknow black women of the Civil Rights Movement, and especially the many black women of the three waves of the feminist movement?
Sadly, many young black girls do not.
I know the young black lady I am mentoring knows very, very little of her history in this country.
Does that bring tears to my eyes? Yes. Am I doing something about it? Yes. In addition to her I am working on a “Book Reading Club” with young black people at the volunteer organization S.H.A.P.E. here where I live, to inform them of their proud history in this country. I know that is my duty to them, the young of the future, and if I do not fulfill that duty to help them create an understanding of their history, and an understanding of themselves, then I will fail to pass on something that can give them a sense of self-direction, a sense of self-actualization that they will need to create, and hold onto positive and fruitful images that can speak truthfully of themselves.
Black women will not find the “Black Woman” though anyone else.
Only through themselves.
(Hopefully, Rachel, this has not gone too much off topic.
Especially since the post is on “Notes on Black Women/White Women in Interracial Relationships”.)
I agree that black women must self generate their own images.
And the stand-by-your-man-even-when-he-is-not-standing-by-you woman image, the have-a-baby-out-of-wedlock-and-let-the-man-off-the-hook-at-the-detriment-of-the-child images do not speak of black women. And they should not speak of the many black women who do not ascribe to this mentality.
They certainly do not speak for me.
I know that my image of me does not in any way jibe with those two referenced images. Never have and never will.
And so too, do those images not jibe in any way with the millions of black women who live in this country.
A question for you, Donna Darko.
Since the overall premise of Rachel’s post speaks to the control of women’s (both black and white) sexuality, what are your perceptions on what a black woman is?
When you think of the words, “black woman”, what images come to mind.
Since there are some people who do not wish to see black women with white men in IRs, but, instead would prefer to continue to see black women and white men remain aversed towards each other, would you consider the reasons behind this way of thinking as trying to keep black women and white men away from each other because, if truth be told, the real “movers and shakers” of both communities are the black woman and the white man, respectively?
Is the desire from some people to keep black women and white men apart from each other, not just by way of social/residential segregation, a way to keep the real “worker bees” of each community away from each other, because if these two groups (the black woman and the white man), ever married in large numbers, that there would be a major shift in the racial paradigm of this country?
Would you consider that the reason marriages/relationships of prominent black men (Tiger Woods and his nanny; Seal and Heidi Klum, etc.), are celebrated and given much media play, as opposed to the marriages/relationships of prominent white men (George Lucas, for example), is because this society wants to continue the celebration of white female beauty, and the continued devaluation of black female beauty?
and you know what happens, Ann, when you get me thinkin’.
When you think of the words, black woman, what images come to mind.
My favorite writers are black women because I relate most to them. They are my main inspiration and for that, I want the best for black women. The next book I want to read when I have free time is A Taste of Power by Elaine Brown who I met after a talk about her leadership of the Black Panther Party in the 70s. She spoke about the bogus perception of the Party’s violence with regards to what else was going on at the time and the sexual violence within the Party. Sexism ended the Party surprise surprise and her book gives the full picture of the Black Movement.
Since there are some people who do not wish to see black women with white men in IRs, but, instead would prefer to continue to see black women and white men remain aversed towards each other, would you consider the reasons behind this way of thinking as trying to keep black women and white men away from each other because, if truth be told, the real movers and shakers of both communities are the black woman and the white man, respectively?
Never thought of it that way, but sure.
Is the desire from some people to keep black women and white men apart from each other, not just by way of social/residential segregation, a way to keep the real worker bees of each community away from each other, because if these two groups (the black woman and the white man), ever married in large numbers, that there would be a major shift in the racial paradigm of this country?
There would definitely be a paradigm shift. I’m all for black women getting everything they deserve in life whether it’s equality, power, money, relationships, happiness.
Would you consider that the reason marriages/relationships of prominent black men (Tiger Woods and his nanny; Seal and Heidi Klum, etc.), are celebrated and given much media play, as opposed to the marriages/relationships of prominent white men (George Lucas, for example), is because this society wants to continue the celebration of white female beauty, and the continued devaluation of black female beauty?
Yes. Absolutely.
http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=445#comment-31518
That was one hell of a post, Ann. It should be the new WOC manifesto.
Your manifesto almost makes me cry. If you don’t mind, I’m going to substitute myself into your manifesto:
But, that did not stop Asian women from championing their causes through the years. And it still has not stopped some Asian women from continuing to speak the truth, no matter who hates to hear the truth.
I am advocating that Asian women take the proverbial bull by the horns and create their own image of who they are. Their own analysis of who they are. Their own understanding of what their priorities are.
Learning and understanding their history, would be a momentous step in that direction for Asian women.
When you do not know your history, you will be bound to commit the same past mistakes over, and over, again.
Not knowing your history puts you at a huge disadvantage.
Not knowing both the good and the bad, puts you at anyones mercy to say and perpetuate anything, and everything they can against you.
Asian women in America are terribly in need of asserting their 0WN identity. Not someone elses.
Only Asian women can speak for themselves. Only Asian women with their unique history in this country can create from themselves what kind of woman they will present not just to the world, but, most importantly, what kind of woman they will create and present to themselves.
Asian women will not find the Asian Woman though anyone else.
Only through themselves.
Asian women must self generate their own images.
I know that my image of me does not in any way jibe with others’ images of me. Never have and never will.
And so too, do those images not jibe in any way with the millions of Asian women who live in this country.
[...] Posted by Jack Stephens on March 19th, 2007 On the blog Rachel’s Tavern the author states: My research is most concerned with how contemporary racism also called colorblind racism or laissez faire racism affects family approval of interracial relationships. However, we cannot understand how contemporary racism works without acknowledging the extent to which racism is interconnected with other forms of oppression. Multiracial feminist theorist Patricia Hill Collins refers to these complex connections as the matrix of domination. After interviewing couples it is evident that opposition to interracial marriage is not just about racism. The issues of gender and controlling Black womens, White womens, and Black mens sexuality is ever present in the discourses that families use to oppose interracial relationships. [...]
Ann asked, (Hopefully, Rachel, this has not gone too much off topic.
Especially since the post is on Notes on Black Women/White Women in Interracial Relationships”.)
Yeah, it’s fine. That’s why I put this back up.
I found this post really helpful and the comments interesting. I just went through a breakup for an interracial relationship–although we didn’t break up because of that. I am a white woman and I grew up in the South. Despite a big city, my community was very segregated but I also grew up with parents who stressed equality and social justice. Imagine my surprise when my mother expressed disapproval of my relationship-even blamed me for sending her into a depression.
My dad was really supportive, but my mom (who, it must be noted, grew up in a much more rural setting) couldn’t deal. I didn’t ever talk to my SO about it because I hoped my mom would change and didn’t want to hurt him or have her racism be her first impression.
Problem now is…I believe she thinks that all of this is water under the bridge now that we broke up…It’s not to me. I need to find a way to talk to her about this because I’m not ok with the way she reacted, things she said. In addition, whose to say that I won’t date another person of color in the future if that person is the right one.
I’ve been reading these posts and I have to say it’s been enlightening to hear the vastly different comments but all with the seemingly vague but constant message: Racism in all of it’s forms has severe negative connotations in our society and the trickle down effect has been and is currently disastrous on our youth. It’s my opinion that if we can impart on our youth and young children as they grow up that differences of appearance and lifestyles should never be an indication of ability, skill, sensitivity, knowledge or education. It’s a shame that parents so often impart their prejudices on their children which in turn cloud the ability for the children to make their own choices based on their own life experiences. I am currently in a serious IR relationship (my first and only – getting married in 2 weeks
and I am under serious scrutiny from some of my friends and some of my family. It’s very difficult to keep focused on our love for each other when I keep hearing that I’m making a mistake and hurting the family. Any advice would be very helpful. I love him and don’t want to ruin something so very blessed and wonderful as this. Thanks and keep blogging!! 
I would love to hear more about your dissertation. Perhaps we could team up. I’m a black female standup comedienne trying to bring ‘heated’ subjects like this to light.
Check out my blog:
http://standup101.blogspot.com