Rachel’s Tavern- Shakesville Comment on Whiteness and Racial Awareness
- Arrested for BAHWB (Being at Home While Black)
- John Hope Franklin Has Died
- Bottles, Breasts, and Mothering “Choices”
- NAACP Class Action Lawsuit on Subprime Loans
- We Have a Future Blogger
- I’m Afraid President Obama, Himself, is a Bit of Coward on the Race Issue
- Highly Skilled US Immigrants are Emigrating: What’s the deal?
- Troll Comments Galore
- Mark’s Spinach Face
Apr
21
Critiques of Obama’s Race Speech Which are Really About Racial Politics in the US Presidential Election Pt. 1
Filed Under Black/African American Issues, Family Issues, Interracial Relationships, Media Praises and Critiques, Original Essays and Analysis, Politics, Race and Racism, U.S. History, Uncategorized by Rachel
While I think Barack Obama has done a good job walking the tightrope of racial politics in America, I get the feeling that he is heavily constrained by racism and racial stereotypes. This was one of my reactions to the now famous speech–it is always important to think about what is, and is NOT being said. For the record, I think the speech was good as a political speech, but as a speech about race in American it was so heavily constrained by the politics of racism that there were some important points that Obama omitted. Furthermore, the reactions to the speech steer discussion in some unfortunate directions, which is where most of my critique lies. Now before anybody gets upset at me for saying this, I don’t blame Obama for the subsequent discussion of his speech.? My critiques are not about the man as an individual, they are about racism and racial politics in America.
Let me start with some things I agreed with and liked about the speech. Obama (and the speech writers because I’m sure there were some) asserted that we don’t talk openly and honestly about race in America.? I think that is true–people either tend to deny the realities of racism and or they exaggerate, stereotype, or misrepresent when it comes to our differences.
I also agree that history has created a great deal of racial baggage that we carry around with us as people.? Moreover, there is an acknowledgement in the “speech on race” that these effects linger in the form of institutional racism.? Check out these few paragraphs (I referenced the text from Daily Kos.):
Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. ? As William Faulkner once wrote, “The past isn’t dead and buried. ? In fact, it isn’t even past.” ? We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. ? But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.
Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven’t fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the pervasive achievement gap between today’s black and white students.
Legalized discrimination – where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. ? That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today’s urban and rural communities.
A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one’s family, contributed to the erosion of black families a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. ? And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.
This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. ? They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. ? What’s remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.
But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn’t make it those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. ? That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. ? Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. ? For the men and women of Reverend Wright’s generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. ? That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. ? But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. ? At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician’s own failings.
With the exception of the comment about welfare policy, which echoes Ronald Regan, I think these are pretty bold statements for a politician to make.? Of course, they are not quite as bold when they are framed as products of past discrimination rather than products of both past and present discrimination, but given the conservative nature of political discourse, I can live with it.
A Few Critiques of the Speech and Reactions to It?
The comment about Obama’s white grandmother has been pulled apart and parsed by pundits, most of whom don’t have a clue about the dynamics of interracial families.? Later, in discussing this speech Obama described his grandmother as the “typical white person” and the same pundits went crazy. These pundits expect people to be racially consistent and they cringe at the idea of whiteness being discussed in any way that is not exceptional1.? In the pundits’ minds, people can’t change their racial views over time, and they can’t hold contradictory views.? In reality, that’s exactly how people are when it comes to race.? I highly suspect that Obama’s grandmother is typical of most whites in her generation–they grew up with racial segregation both legalized and informal segregation as the norm and didn’t much question it.? Furthermore, intermarriage was illegal in many states during the much of his grandmother’s lifetime.? Although Obama has never spoken about his white grandparents reaction to his parents marriage and his birth, we know from surveys that during the early 1970s the vast majority of whites opposed interracial marriage and this opposition was still very strong even into the 1990s, when whites were asked about a family member intermarrying.? So it would be the least bit surprising if she had negative views of interracial relationships and black people.? It’s pretty clear that, like many white relatives of interracial couples and biracial people, Obama’s grandmother loved him and cared for him, and she held stereotypical views of black men.? That should not be hard to believe because it is the norm in many mixed race families, and in many people in general.
What bothered me about this part of the speech and the subsequent discussion of the racial dynamics of Obama’s family life is that I got the distinct impression that the underlying message Obama and some of his supporters were trying to convey was, “Hey, don’t forget; I’m/he’s white too” or “I’m/he’s not as black as you think I am/he is.”? To me that was a really sad revelation about the current state of racial politics in this country.
What made this worse was when it devolved into a common stereotype of mixed race people that I have discussed in the past (here and in papers I have presented at conferences).? The myth involves the belief that mixed race people are 1) signs of progress and 2) potential saviors who will somehow liberate us from racism because they understand “both worlds.”? On numerous occasions, people have treated Obama in this way.? They have viewed his mixed race heritage as something that bestows him with supernatural abilities, specifically the ability to transcend race and heal old racial wounds.? Having a mixed race family doesn’t not necessarily give an individual a special understanding of race, and being monoracial doesn’t preclude someone from being able to united diverse groups and develop an understanding of what it is like to be from “another race.”
I don’t totally blame Obama for reminding people that his mother is white–that is politics.? Obviously, his campaign thinks it will help him, and they are probably right about that.? I just don’t like the handful of narratives that we have developed about interracial families and mixed race people.? While the old narratives about tragic mulattos, the one drop rule, and sexually adventurous interracial couples are misguided, some of our new narratives–”the best of both worlds” and “the supernatural biracial uniter” are also misguided.
In the next post on the Obama speech, I’ll address two other problems I had with the speech and the reactions to it.? The 2 critiques/points are related to the following points 1) Are white “resentments” and black “anger” really equivalents?? Does the two way street anaology really work?? 2) Why does “Working Class” mean white in our political discourse?? And what does it say that we single out white working class resentment (racism)?
- Do you think they would have been mad if he described her as the “exceptional white person” rather than the “typical white person”? [back]
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34 Responses to “Critiques of Obama’s Race Speech Which are Really About Racial Politics in the US Presidential Election Pt. 1”
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The comments posted in this blog entry may be bold, but I believe them to be true and accurate. Just my opinion. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to see the speech, but I’ve saved the video of it on YouTube so that I can watch/decipher it when I get time.
I’m a recent subscriber to this blog and I like it.
In reference to the white grandmother quote, I have often wondered if white people (and other racial/ethnic groups as well) would react positively to Obama IF his grandmother had been a black woman. Somehow, I do not think the reaction would be positive. That many whites react more positively to him (and according to some news reports of comments from white males), many consider him more “palatable” BECAUSE he has a white grandmother.
Because of 450 years of devaluation of blackness, whiteness (with all the hells it has caused) is considered normal in this country, even though there has never been anything “normal” about the inhumane brutish mistreatment non-whites have suffered at the hands of whites in all of America’s history.
His white grandmother would be seen as acceptable to millions of whites, as opposed to his having a black grandmother. Which is why I do not consider America as ready for a BLACK FIRST LADY. Black women are devalued by America, especially politically progressive black women who speak the truth of America’s sordid history (Michelle Obama on how she can now have pride in America).
As for IRs, and so-called “mixed-blood” people.
The illogical, insanity that: “The myth involves the belief that mixed race people are 1) signs of progress and 2) potential saviors who will somehow liberate us from racism because they understand both worlds”, is something that is wretched in its refusing to face up to the history of this country. Mixed-blood people in America started when the first white man set foot on the North American continent. White men have been climbing on top of non-white women in this country/hemisphere for centuries (Red, brown and black women), and race relations are still shit in this hypocrisy of a country. If it were true that crawling between each others legs would end racism, then racism would have been abolished in people’s hearts and minds centuries ago.
But, institutionalized racism is embedded into America, and ALL suffer because of it.
And, no, mixed-blood people are nothing new; mixed-blood people are not “transcending” bridges between races.
There have been many so-called mono-race people (hell, as if such a race of people still live in America with all of the rape-mixing that has occurred) who have been just as much bridges between both races. Black women and men who worked with whites; black women who had close contact with whites, on an individual level, and in various organizations—-so-called mixed-blood people are not some cosmic racial Godsend to build bridges between races. That is one of the biggest lies given concerning mixed-blood people. A lie created by white males to justify their sexualized gendered racism against non-white women through the centuries. They are not a panacea; they are not “saviors”.
Mixed-blood people are NOT the best of both worlds.
Mixed blood people are NOT the worst of both worlds.
They are just human beings who put their pants, dresses, boxer/briefs, shirts, neckties on just like the rest of the world. They kill, steal, lie, cheat, help, hinder, shit, piss, love—and hate—-just like any other human being. They are not to be held up above anyone else; nor are they to be held down as less than anyone else.
In short, they are PEOPLE.
Nothing more; nothing less.
People who acknowledge the humanity of ALL people, are the best of both worlds;
People who treat ALL humans with dignity, with respect, are the best of both worlds;
Men who treat ALL women with consideration, deference, and respect, ARE the best of both worlds.
People have been working to make this the best country in the world, many of those people being what would racially be called “Black”, who have worked much to build bridges across the racial chasm created by white supremacy.
That many black people carry the blood of rapists in their veins (courtesy of the fine, upstanding-black-woman-respecting- white men) has not stopped black Americans from giving their very best to this country.
That black people are tied to whites genetically due to white male hatred of black women, has not stopped black Americans from still loving this country and not giving up on it.
So, no, so-called mixed people are not the salvation of America, anymore than black people are the destruction of America (as white-run America just loves so much to try and portray with racist stereotypical media—news, television, and film).
The past will remain with America until she has the guts to acknowledge her hatred against the race of people who have given her so much: Black people.
But, she will never do that, for her vicious hatred against black people is so deeply entrenched with the worship of WHITE DEATH, which has nearly destroyed this country.
“Do you think they would have been mad if he described her as the exceptional white person rather than the typical white person?”
MAYBE. But, doubtful.
I would consider her as “exceptional” IF she showed love towards both the African/Kenyan father, as much as she showed towards the mixed grandchild (Obama).
To show hate/animosity towards the black parent, but love towards the mixed grandchild is to me—-schizophrenic. You have a grandchild who is a product of your daughter and your son-n-law. To “split” your mind, and love only the grandchild, while continuing to harbor contempt for the non-white parent is incomprehensible, but, from what I have read of your posts on your relationship Rachel, how some family members responded to your relationship, and other IRs you have posted on, this dichotomy prevails.
I would consider the grandmother “exceptional” IF she showed respect towards the black parent as well as love towards the mixed grandchild.
Her loving the child (after she/he arrives) makes her the “typical white person”: the child has white blood, is not the black/non-white parent; the child is a part of the white son/daughter; therefore, the child would be loved because that child is the GRANDCHILD.
To spurn a grandchild is the ultimate dead-on-the-inside behaviour.
TO harbor racist hatreds against black people, but, to love ONE black person, is behaviour that many black people (especially those who hail from the American South) are very familiar with.
That there are whites who can love one black person and hate the whole group/race of black people is not some revelation or surprise to many black people.
This has played itself out millions of times in American history:
-Ben Tillman, racist white politician of the South, who railed against black-white IRs, but had TWO FAMILIES: white family/white wife in the front house, black family/black concubine in a little house in the back—-all the while he fanned the flames of race hatred and race mob lynching against black people.
Many whites give lip sevice to equality towards black people. Balck people are an abstract in the minds of many whites. . . .
. . . .until white son or daughter brings a black fiancee home to “Meet The Parents”.
Then the real thoughts come to the surface.
It is real easy for whites to state on surveys/polls that they can have no fear of IRs, especially IRs that involve a black son-n-law or God forbid, a black daughter-n-law.
It is real easy to speak platitudes about the “brotherhood of man”, blah, blah,blah.
Until it hits TOO close to home.
Then all the poisons that lurk in the mud, finally hatch out.
“In reference to the white grandmother quote, I have often wondered if white people (and other racial/ethnic groups as well) would react positively to Obama IF his grandmother had been a black woman.”
I do want to add that Obama DOES have a black grandmother—-a black Kenyan grandmother, but, you hear next to nothing of her. (Not to mention practically nothing of Obama’s Asian sister, either.):
“Inside his grandmothers cinderblock home, framed photos of Obamas 2006 visit and an earlier one in 1987 lined the walls, alongside a signed election poster from his Senate race. Sarah Hussein Obama, wearing a brightly patterned dress and sandals decorated with shells and beads, sat in a wooden chair in the immaculate living room, waiting for news of her grandson.”
http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2008/01/08/obama-family-in-kenya-watches-us-vote/
But, of course millions of whites would in no way indentify with Sarah Hussein Obama the way they would with Obama’s white “American” grandmother, or his white American mother.
Ann,
once again you speaketh a plain truth. Our propensity to over-analyze race issues speaks to our reluctance to deal with things as they are. Racism/white supremacy is a value judgement with the institutional power to enforce…common, “typical” white people ratify it daily as social tradition. Black folk, no matter what their station in life have to bend to its will…We know that white “resentments” and Black anger are fundamentally different. White resentments spring from a sense of entitlement; not getting equal shares in an unjust system…Black folk are outside the pale period…you’ve got to “kiss the ring” of unoffensivness for white people to be “comfortable” with you…if you are; you may reap some of the spoils…if you’re considered confrontational, you are labeled as one to be either tamed, marginalized or eliminated…
dissecting Obama’s race speech could be considered an exercise in futility because of white supremacy’s power to conform. Obama’s ability to speak truthfully has already been compromised…if he wants to be President that is…
very well argued and insightful post.
The “best of both worlds” thing makes me tired.
On a few occasions I’ve heard it, and just had to snap back. “Having the best of both worlds means I got to experience racism from Asian people as well as white people. THANKS SO MUCH FOR REMINDING ME HOW LUCKY I AM!!!”
I wrote at my own blog about how I empathized with Obama’s description of his grandmother. My own situation was very similar. My maternal grandparents were strongly against my mother having a baby with a Japanese man. My grandmother even warned my mother that she would “ruin my life” by bringing me into the world. Once I was born, they changed their minds and I always had a great relationship with them. They weren’t perfect human beings, but they were good ones.
“Having a mixed race family doesnt necessarily give an individual a special understanding of race…”
I agree, but with qualifications. I don’t think being mixed race guarantees any special understanding. But it does mean, when parents stay together, that the individual often has exposure to two different communities. Of course it’s also possible that the multiracial person was raised in a monoracial environment, and they didn’t have this diverse upbringing. But individuals (either multiracial or monoracial) who are raised in diverse environments will tend to have a wider comfort zone than individuals raised in non-diverse environments.
I’m thinking of a girl I met at a summer camp who told me she’d never met a Jewish person and was nervous about meeting one. I thought that was kind of insane, but later on I realized I had the privilege of coming from a cosmopolitan urban environment, not a very small rural one.
“1) Are white resentments and black anger really equivalents? 2) Why does Working Class mean white in our political discourse? And what does it say that we single out white working class resentment (racism)?”
Here’s my stab at the answers:
1) I think white resentment and black anger come from the same basic emotions. But white resentment is a lot more complicated and harder to understand. It’s bound up in other issues like guilt. Also, white resentment is much more socially acceptable than black anger.
2) Because according to the mainstream media, there are no working-class non-white people. The stereotypical reasoning: if black people didn’t pull themselves into the middle-class, therefore becoming “good”, they’re viewed as pathologically underclass. Working class Asians just don’t exist because all Asians are elite professionals, or else hardworking middle-class small business owners. And working class Latinos don’t exist because they’re illegal aliens (or in some regions, pathologically underclass, like black people).
Singling out white working-class resentment displaces responsibility for racism away from institutions and the larger American “us”. The white working class is the focus of paradoxical pride and shame. Pride because they show that white people work hard and suffer too… shame because the middle-class suspects them of being losers and failures at the American dream. So the white working-class is praised, patronized, distrusted and used as a pawn.
Hi Prof Rachel:
I liked the fact that Obama’s speech drew attention to those of us who live in mixed families. I agree with atlasien about the benefit of living of two communities and the fact that expands a child’s comfort level as she/he ages. I am seeing it in the lives of my children now.
Also, I recently read a very good debate betweem Eric Michael Dyson and Carl Cohen on Affirmative Action. One very interesting point that emerged between the debaters is the understanding of race.
Cohen, a professor of philosophy, narrows it to mean skin color only and then makes the assertion that is has been and always will be wrong to make preferences of individuals of one group over another in any context whatsoever. It was wrong for instituitions to prefer whites historically and it is wrong now to make preferences for anyone now. This has view holds a strong lure for many because it seems morally consistent (on the surface).
(This is the same stance that the American Civil Rights Institute takes – an ahistorical view of race in the U.S. It also the view taken by Clarence Thomas.)
Dyson, on the hand, says that race must be understood against the backdrop of what has evolved in the history and the social/economic experience(s) of people of color in the U.S. The playing field was not level and it is not level now.
It is viewing race through the ahistorical lens that prevents meaningful dialogue from occurring in many contexts.
Carl Cohen’s take on race is the classic definition of sophistry, ie. a misleading arguement that seems reasonable…to label a race-based remedy equal to race-based EXCLUSION is to continue to status quo by default..which, btw, is the plan.
Ronnie Brown:
It takes you 2-3 sentences to state what took me 10-11. Kudos!
Adam
thanx Adam…i like to cut to the chase!
atlasien said, “I agree, but with qualifications. I dont think being mixed race guarantees any special understanding. But it does mean, when parents stay together, that the individual often has exposure to two different communities. Of course its also possible that the multiracial person was raised in a monoracial environment, and they didnt have this diverse upbringing. But individuals (either multiracial or monoracial) who are raised in diverse environments will tend to have a wider comfort zone than individuals raised in non-diverse environments.”
Interesting related point……
Just focusing on Black/White biracial people for a second, I found a survey from the early 1990s indicating that 40-45% of black white biracial children are born to unmarried parents. The survey only covers infants and toddlers, but I was surprised at how high that number is at such a young age. It probably gets much higher as the kids get older, which could mean that a fairly large percentage of children from this group are growing up with a single parent, which could effect the types of neighborhoods they are socialized in.
This seems particularly relevant to Obama, who from what I know about his bio didn’t grow up around many blacks, and didn’t have a strong relationship with his father. He definitely had a diverse upbringing because he lived in such diverse areas/regions/countries, and it’s pretty clear that he had a great deal of exposure to various Asian ethnicities. I would suspect that his exposure to blacks came later in life–e.g. college.
At the personal level, I get the sense he does know how to go back and forth between different subcultures, which is related to his success in this election. Where I get frustrated is when people assume that it is his biracial background, more so than his socialization and personal charisma.
atlasien said, “It seems
Im thinking of a girl I met at a summer camp who told me shed never met a Jewish person and was nervous about meeting one. I thought that was kind of insane, but later on I realized I had the privilege of coming from a cosmopolitan urban environment, not a very small rural one.”
I suppose this is for a different debate, but I don’t buy the last sentence (not as it relates to you personally, but in general). At one point and time I would have, but living in New York has made it very clear to me that urbanites are pretty racist too. I think the style of racist expression is different in the two types of environments.
Thank you Ann. This sordid history needs to be talked about if we are to move ahead in race relations in America. I, too, am sick of the media’s characterization of IRs, multiracial children and adults as being relative new. IRs and multiracial children has been around since the founding of America. The only difference is that white mothers are having or adopting multiracial kids in recent times, hence, the media’s fawning of IRs and multiracials. Had Obama’
s mother been Black, the media won’t talk about it. Nor would he had the media buzz.
Steph
atlasien,
solid answer on 2)
Rachel and atlasien, I thought that was kind of insane, but later on I realized I had the privilege of coming from a cosmopolitan urban environment, not a very small rural one.
Which is the insane part, being nervous about meeting a Jewish person or not having been around one before?
I was a little kid, so it’s hard to say. At the time, it just struck me as really, really weird to grow up without ever meeting a Jewish person. It was a good lesson for me, I guess.
I grew up without knowing anybody Jewish (as far as I know anyways), to me the insane part is more being afraid.
I grew up in a rural area without much ethnic or racial diversity, so I admittedly bristle a little at those “cosmopolitan” types of comments. This should probably be a post in itself, which is why I didn’t elaborate.
“Of course its also possible that the multiracial person was raised in a monoracial environment, and they didnt have this diverse upbringing. But individuals (either multiracial or monoracial) who are raised in diverse environments will tend to have a wider comfort zone than individuals raised in non-diverse environments.
So.
The “only” way to have a “diverse environment” is from growing up around various diverse groups of people?
That your
-job
-school/university
-church
where you come into contact with various racial groups of people
does not offer diverse life experiences?
That the only way one can reach a varied and intelligent understanding of different peoples/cultures is IF they have different parents of different racial groups? That they live in a neighborhood of diverse groups?
Then how do you explain black women and men who have so-called monoracial black parents (yeah, “pure” black people somehow managed to exist in America after slavery, Reconstruction and segregation), who lived in predominantly-black neighborhoods, who are able to work reasonably and diversely with people they were never raised around or grew up with?
How do you explain the many black people who have never lived around whites, Asians, and others, who are able to get along very well with people who are non-black Americans?
Because I think job/school/university/church are all parts of growing up. I don’t think people stop growing when they move away from home. Some do stop growing, unfortunately, but I think most don’t.
Also, I don’t mean to say that just because you’ve never met a type of person before, you have to be uncomfortable and fear them. I think reactions are really all over the board.
For example, a stranger I met in rural Mexico who wanted to take a picture holding hands with me, because they’d never seen a Japanese person before and wanted to prove to their friends they’d met a real live one. That experience was also very weird. Not necessarily bad, but definitely weird.
[...] Here is the link to Rachel’s post:? http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=914 [...]
Black people, by necessity, must adapt and coexist within the dominant Anglo culture…while at the same time trying, in various degrees, not be overwhelmed by the hostility of anti-Black stereotypes and bias that play such a significant part in American life. White supremacy is exactly what it says…white/European cultural norms are SUPREME…to be valued, desired, imitated above all else. We are not as “cosmopolitan” as we claim to be. The fact is, ones multiracial existence, whether as an individual or in a relationship is not valued equally in this society. African ancestry carries a stigma…white admixture is seen as a step up, a benefit, a quality that REDEEMS…so this notion of multiracial individuals having “the best of both worlds” has always been bogus.
“Interesting related point
Just focusing on Black/White biracial people for a second, I found a survey from the early 1990s indicating that 40-45% of black white biracial children are born to unmarried parents. The survey only covers infants and toddlers, but I was surprised at how high that number is at such a young age. It probably gets much higher as the kids get older, which could mean that a fairly large percentage of children from this group are growing up with a single parent, which could effect the types of neighborhoods they are socialized in.”
Any answers as to why so many biracial children are born to single parents as opposed to being born to multi-racial parents who would be married?
Is there some sort of anathema towards marriage when people of different races become intimate with each other enough to produce a child, but, not strong enough in their feelings to stand before a minister OR a justice of the peace?
Of course, I am not saying that people should marry for the sake of marrying, but if a person can lay down and produce a child BEFORE marriage is there some reason why they cannot wait and produce a child AFTER marriage?
Or at least marry after the birth of the child if they cared enough to lay down with each other?
Just questions.
Why so many children born out of wedlock to biracial parensts as opposed to being born in marriage?
“It probably gets much higher as the kids get older, which could mean that a fairly large percentage of children from this group are growing up with a single parent, which could effect the types of neighborhoods they are socialized in.”
Any idea on which extended family the mother and children would live with? Black family/black neighborhood OR white family/white neighborhood? Does the survey address this?
Since hypodescent has NEVER been abolished in America, I am wondering if sexual relations between blacks/whites are more highly prized than committed, long-term relationships (marriage).
“White supremacy is exactly what it sayswhite/European cultural norms are SUPREMEto be valued, desired, imitated above all else. We are not as cosmopolitan as we claim to be.’
“White/European cultural norms” are NOT supreme. Many black Americans know this. So, do some people of other non-white races. Just because the white man has proliferated the world with white lies of filth and abomination does not make white people better than black or non-white people. All one has to do is look at the sick, sadistic history of white race hatred in America, and one can come to the sane conclusion that whiteness is NOT something to be valued and praised to the high heavens. If anything, whiteness has shown more INFERIOR behaviour (genetic annihilation of native peoples and black people; race segregation; murders; ethnic cleansing against black and native peoples).
“African ancestry carries a stigmawhite admixture is seen as a step up, a benefit, a quality that REDEEMSso this notion of multiracial individuals having the best of both worlds has always been bogus.”
No.
The blood of the white rapist has ALWAYS carried stigma. There is nothing honorable about a race of men who have been nothing but COWARDS towards EVERY RACE OF NON-WHITE WOMEN on the earth.
White blood exist in many non-white peoples because of white men’s hatred and domination of millions of WOC. White blood does not “redeem”. If anything white blood shows the ultimate cruelty and viciousness of white men towards Native American, Black American, Asian American, and Latina American women.
The perversions and atrocities of the white man show in the many different colors so-called “non-white” people in this hemisphere come in.
A MAN does not rape and destroy a woman based on her race/color. That is something that a piece of filth does.
Admisture of white blood is the greatest proof of white men’s crimes against the humanity of so many WOC.
Ann,
I agree with you in principle; but i was providing a definition of white supremacy and its effects; not co-signing on the premise…
I will fuse together the ideas of Ann and Ronnie Brown: Because my fellow black citizens have had to interact with the dominant Anglo-European culture to survive and succeed economically in the U.S., they, for most part (im my view) are amazingly versatile in diverse settings (socially, occupationally.
A true test for white people is to work or attend worship (on a sustained basis)in a setting that is largely composed of people of color. One will find out quickly how versatile she/he really is.
I realized how much I have changed over the years from a recent trip to downstate Indiana with my mother. I have not been there in years. White people everywhere. More than ever before, I became very conscious and just a bit (a thread)uncomfortable. I remember thinking: “The rolling hills are beautiful in the Summer and Fall, but I could not move here with my family and feel comfortable (socially)…even if the economic opportunity was there…Could I speak Spanish with my in a restaurant without harrassment…What do these people think of IR families like mine?
Some of reading this might be shaking your heads and even laughing a little. But, Rachel, not to derail too much from the topic at hand, I wonder if you are encountering this same feeling of consciousness in rural Ohio when you visit family?
At the time, it just struck me as really, really weird to grow up without ever meeting a Jewish person.
Sure, that does feel really, really weird if it’s not what you grew up with. I grew up in New York, where schools would close on Yom Kippur because so many people would be gone anyway. So it was weird when I got older just to meet people who knew maybe one Jew, or who didn’t automatically know what Yom Kippur was, or the handful of Yiddish words I thought everyone knew. If I’d actually met someone who grew up without knowing any Jews, when I was young enough not to be used to meeting people who’d grown up differently from me, it would have struck me as very odd indeed.
Doesn’t make cosmopolitan New York exactly free of prejudice or racism, though.
“Ann,
I agree with you in principle; but i was providing a definition of white supremacy and its effects; not co-signing on the premise”
Ronnie.
I apologize for stating my comment as if you agreed with white supremacy. I did not mean to imply that you did. I understood what you meant. You were just stating the truth.
White supremacy is a sick hell unleashed upon this country; a sick plague that has wreaked havoc upon anyone who lives in America.
___________________________________
Adam:
“I will fuse together the ideas of Ann and Ronnie Brown: Because my fellow black citizens have had to interact with the dominant Anglo-European culture to survive and succeed economically in the U.S., they, for most part (im my view) are amazingly versatile in diverse settings (socially, occupationally.”
Black people have had to keep so much bottled up inside them for over 450 years. Black people have had to live with a double conscious that millions of white people will never understand. Black people have had to survive economically, socially, educationally, etc. in order to navigate their way towards survival in a black-race hating country.
If anyone should be afraid of anyone, it should be black people having fear of white people. There are still many areas in America where a black person cannot drive through that predominantly white area without fear of that black person never beibg heard from again.
Just because whites do not lynch and burn black people publically anymore does not mean that that long history has gone the way of the dinosaur.
Four and fifty years is a long time.
“Four and fifty years is a long time.”
Four HUNDRED and fifty years is a long time.
I thought Obama’s speech was great, and most importantly, honest. I can understand admin’s hyperanalysis, makes sense, but as always it is based on certain assumptions that I am not sure everyone agrees on. For the most part I think it is insightful and thought provoking. Kudos admin, at 30 weeks that is some good work.
On the funny side, I agree with Ann that millions of whites would in no way identify with Sarah Hussein Obama the way they would with Obamas white American grandmother, or his white American mother. Sarah Hussein Obama lives in Kenya, right? – most Americans cannot identify with someone who lives in Kenya. Keep it coming Ann, LOL.
Also, based on what I have read, and I am not sure it is even true, Obama was raised by his mother, had an indonesion stepfather, and had a convential grandmother – grandson relationship with his maternal gradmother (as opposed to knowing he has a grandmother in Kenya and perhaps speaking with her from time to time).
“On the funny side, I agree with Ann that millions of whites would in no way identify with Sarah Hussein Obama the way they would with Obamas white American grandmother, or his white American mother. Sarah Hussein Obama lives in Kenya, right? – most Americans cannot identify with someone who lives in Kenya. Keep it coming Ann, LOL.”
Just like millions of whites in America cannot identify with the humanity of their fellow black citizens after 400+ years of white supremacist hatred, eh, LL?
LOL.
Keep ‘em coming.
[...] at APA for Progress, writes: Rachel from Rachelstavern.com asks, Why does Working Class mean white in our political discourse? Once I thought [...]
[...] at APA for Progress, writes: Rachel from Rachelstavern.com asks, Why does Working Class mean white in our political discourse? Once I thought [...]
Ann, I was simply agreeing with you that no-one can expect white Americans, or black, latino, asian, etc. . . Americans to identify with a elderly woman who lives in Kenya and has lived her whole life in Kenya, except perhaps in the most general abstract way.
I understand your point and your opinion, it is the same point you make and same opinion you express in every single thread. I generally find it trite, boring, regurgitation, and your thinking exceedingly inflexible, but that is a whole other conversation that doesn’t belong here.
It is just that when you try to support your point and opinion with facts like “white Americans cannot identify with a Kenyan woman living in Kenya” it is just too damn amusing let it go without pointing it out.
“It is just that when you try to support your point and opinion with facts like white Americans cannot identify with a Kenyan woman living in Kenya it is just too damn amusing let it go without pointing it out.”
Which is why I made the comment in the first place.
How can millions of white people identify with a black woman from Kenya, when millions of them in America cannot identify with their fellow black citizens.
I am black; very black. I am not stupid. That Barack Obama felt compelled to give a speech about race in America only after revelation of his pastor’s views threatened his campaign and therefore demanded the clarification of context is very insulting to me; careful review of Obama’s speech shows that much effort was spent on providing a historical and cultural context for much of Wright’s excesses. Am I the only one who thinks that this was a political speech devoted to the singular political goal of covering one’s posterior from public scrutiny?
americaneyedoll,
I’d be interested in what you consider Pastor Wright’s “excesses”…