Rachel’s Tavern- Shakesville Comment on Whiteness and Racial Awareness
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Jul
3
How Not to Talk About Africans and African Americans
Filed Under Black/African American Issues, International Racism, Race and Racism by Sewere
My very first guest post here at Rachels Tavern so I thought Id start off with something thats a little close to home. I caught wind of this USA Today article over at Prometheus 6 (Thanks P6!) and thought it provided a good starting point for a discussion some of the problematic ways of talking about the experience of African immigrants within the United States.
The Synopsis:
The article talks about the increasing number of immigrants from Sub-Saharan Africa, tension between African immigrants and African Americans, and some of the stresses involved in adjusting to a new setting with different cultural expectations.
The Assessment:
I have to say I was thrown off by the title as well as the fact that a good portion of it was spent talking about tension between African immigrants and African Americans. Heres how the article plays out.
Some nurture dreams of returning to Africa for good one day. But many are casting their lot permanently in America, trying to assimilate even as they and their children struggle to learn where they fit in a country where black-white relations are a perpetual work-in-progress….”To white people, we are all black,” said Wanjiru Kamau, a Kenyan-born community activist in Washington, D.C. “But as soon as you open your mouth to some African-Americans, they look at you and wonder why you are even here…..”Except for the skin, which is just a facade, there is very little in common between Africans and African-Americans. We need to sit down and listen to each other’s story.”
The paragraph starts off with a false racial dichotomy by positioning Africans immigrant experience between blacks and whites, but then it skips right over anti-black racism from whites and spends a good amount of time on the tension between Africans and African-American. Is it me, or did anyone else get the feeling that by positing white anti-black racism with certain reactions by African-Americans, the article is setting up the reader to think that Africans face discrimination from African-Americans at (almost) the same level as anti-black racism?
After discussing some of the stats (supported by an immigrant story that highlights one of many experiences) the article then returns to the tension between Africans and African-Americans by launching with a statement by the Ethiopian woman in the story:
Tigist said her relations with African-Americans have mostly been amicable, though on occasion she has sensed ill-feelings. “Some people, they treat you as if you don’t know anything,” she said, “as if you’re from the jungle.”Lack of knowledge can cut both ways. Tigist is gradually learning details of America’s racial history, even watching the TV mini-series “Roots.”….”I feel bad about that racism but when I come here now, I didn’t feel it at all. I would never think someone would discriminate against me,” she said. “I don’t have any bad feelings for black Americans, but I am not one of them. … I’m not a black American, I’m not a white American. I’m an Ethiopian.”
I have to say many of the folks I know from Sub-Saharan Africa identify by nationalities (for example, Nigerian, Ghanaian, Ethiopian etc) and if prodded will identify by ethnicity (Yoruba, Luo, Ibo, Xosa, Shona etc), BUT they also identify as black people. More often than not, Africans relate to African-Americans as Black-Americans i.e. a nationality/ethnicity of blacks but with a different nationality/culture that is unique to the U.S. much like the way someone Nigerian would relate to someone who is Ethiopian. Were this a more in-depth piece, I think there would be more about the subtle nuances in the way these identities relate to one another.
Of course theres the sensational part of this story that cant be ignored. If were going to talk about the tension between African and African-Americans we have to talk about the most prominent example of that tension. Yes folks, Im talking about Barack Obama. As the article states,
Democratic president candidate Barak Obama, son of a black Kenyan father and white American mother, has wrestled with similar issues. Some skeptics have doubted whether his background will appeal to black voters, and he recalled in his memoirs that he was rebuffed by national civil rights groups when he was younger.
As you all remember, the media was very quick to tell just how black or not, Obama really is. But this article also skips over the fact that Obamas actual issues with civil rights groups were mostly organizational structure and not necessarily about his background as Kenyan and White. The other detail left out is that he was born after 1961 and lived in Indonesia and Hawaii most of the 60s and 70s and that he actually started out working for a Civil Rights law firm as well as with community grassroots groups in Chicago. (Side Note: Would he have been any less black than my cousins whose mother is African-American and father Nigerian, who were born in the U.S, grew up for the most part in Nigeria only to return in their late teens?)
Continuing the description of the tension,
“Some Africans view African-Americans as violent, lazy, intellectually inferior U.S. blacks are taught that the Africans are less civilized, not as capable”
Ok, is it me or is someone ignoring the rather large purple elephant standing in the room? How can you write about pervasive stereotypes and not ask the crucial questions, like like, what are the origins of the stereotypes of African-Americans and Africans? And maybe, how and why are they still being perpetuated?
Theres so much to say about this article that if I decided take it apart I would end up writing several pages. On one hand, I think the article does a great job of highlighting the multiple paths African (voluntary) immigration has taken in recent years, unfortunately when it came to discussing the complex ways in which Africans and African-Americans relate to one another, all you get is a superficial analysis. But dont take my word for it, please read the article and share your thoughts.
Update: Sorry folks, I just realized that I turned off the comments function. Still green at this posting thing.
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29 Responses to “How Not to Talk About Africans and African Americans”
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USA Today is synonymous with superficial. Why would you expect anything different?
“what are the origins of the stereotypes of African-Americans and Africans?”
Your answer is in the article: “even watching the TV mini-series ‘Roots’” A world-view based on a piece of fiction as presented in a made-for-television mini-series format will invariably be skewed from reality.
Abstracting away the racial element, popular media is no place to gain an accurate appraisal of any social condition, not even people’s appreciation for popular media.
[...] How Not to Talk About Africans and African Americans – Rachels Tavern “by positing white anti-black racism with certain reactions by African-Americans, the article is setting up the reader to think that Africans face discrimination from African-Americans at (almost) the same level as anti-black racism?” (tags: african africanamerican racism) [...]
I am seeing that trend play out in adoption as well. It is almost like Africans migrating to the country now are being touted as “replacements.” I find the ever present distinguishing and constant pot stirring very divisive. It is very unfortunate.
Keep in mind as well that it is a newspaper and not a thesis paper. To talk about the issues your outline in any sort of detail means making the article longer and more in depth than the average American media consumer will stand.
Basically the article is right, but it fails to explain the causal relationships for what it is talking about. Only some European media outlets would go indepth enough to do this story any justice.
This type of stuff happens day in and day out concerning Islam, Muslims and terrorism. Until the American populace is ready to read more and think more I am afraid this is the best one can hope for outside of specialty academic journals and publications.
I’ve been meaning to comment on this and I hope Sewere comes back to read this. I found the article and commentaty quite interesting. Houston has a large African population, primarily Nigerian. Reading this reminded me of some conversations with a friend of mine who works with a Nigerian woman who has a very negative view of black Americans, and even called my friend ‘diluted’ because my friend is a black American and not a pure African from the continent. (They do get along and are friendly but just have these types of conversations) However, despite all this this same Nigerian woman has invited my friend to her house and says she doesn’t see my friend like she sees other ‘black people’. My friend was saying how frustrated she was with the conversations that she has with her co-worker but realized that she would have to treat her not as a person with brown skin like hers and assume she was a compatriot but rather like a white person she would deal with on a day to day basis.
Sorry I’ve been MIA, I’ve been on the road a bit and every time I log in to make comments my connection cuts off after a few minutes.
My response to your questions.
Me said, “USA Today is synonymous with superficial. Why would you expect anything different?”
The article isn’t just superficial it makes a lot of assumptions without providing causal links, as Abu Sinan said. The Roots examples doesn’t tell you why Africans believe that African-Americans are lazy, and I don’t think it’s just the media Africans see from the U.S.
Dawn said, “It is almost like Africans migrating to the country now are being touted as replacements. I find the ever present distinguishing and constant pot stirring very divisive. It is very unfortunate.”
Exactly. The point is to tout Africans as the Black Model Minority as one of the many ways to avoid having to deal with the actual impact of slavery and racism on African-Americans. I mean if well educated and relatively wealthy Africans are able to make it to and in the U.S. (as if many of us weren’t actually being heavily recruited because of our education) why can’t African Americans? I can’t tell you how
many 
times 
I’ve heard that statement even here from everyone from African immigrants to African Americans to white folks who consider themselves liberal or progressive.
Tiffany said, “Reading this reminded me of some conversations with a friend of mine who works with a Nigerian woman who has a very negative view of black Americans, and even called my friend diluted because my friend is a black American and not a pure African from the continent….. However, despite all this this same Nigerian woman has invited my friend to her house and says she doesnt see my friend like she sees other black people.”
Right there you have the full manifestation of African-American stereotype… Ive met one too many Nigerians who think just like this, if you were to dig deeper these same people are just as likely to believe in stereotypes of Nigerians who are not from their ethnic background (which would make for a very interesting study if expanded to other groups Asians and Asian-Americans).
she would have to treat her not as a person with brown skin like hers and assume she was a compatriot but rather like a white person
And I would agree with her, if anything to preserve her sanity.
How Africans (Nigerians, Ghanians, etc.) can have the audacity to call black Americans lazy, and criminalistic is the real tom-foolery insult of all insults.
Nigerian men who come to this country and out-white the white man in their debasing black American women: “Good enough to fuck, but, not good enough to marry”. Lay up with a black woman, defile her, then run off to marry an African woman or white woman, or woman of another race. There are many black American women who can tell horror stories of suffering mistreatment at the hands of black American-woman hating African racists.)
When I was in college, there was a Nigerian student in one of my classes. The professor the night before gave a discussion on what was going to be on the next day’s exam. This person sat there with the rest of us students while the teacher reviewed the questions.
The next day, because of his “lazyness” and ” stupidity” in not taking notes the day before, he squealed and moaned wanting to copy off my paper. Like all the black people who came before me in America (black people, meaning black Americans), I felt sorry for him and let him copy off my paper. Needless to say, I became invisible in his eyes after he got what he wanted. The fact that he was dumb and stupid in the worse way possible (I received an “A” in the class, he did not), and the fact that his behaviour was “use those black people up, then drop them like a hot potato” did not help at all.
I have met many lazy, ignorant people of African descent, in and out of school. And that there are some Africans (which is why I do not use the term “African-American”), who think that the white man’s patting them on the head, and patting them on the ass gives them some carte blanche “Honorary White Status” over black people, shows how many non-black Americans think they are better than black Americans just because Massa said so.
Decades ago, Puerto Ricans, were the Model Minority. Years later it was the Asians. Now it is Caribbeans and Africans. You would think that non-blacks would see the white man for what he truly is—a divide and conquer-pit-them-all-against-each-other for what he is so-called human. But, many non-blacks are so busy tripping and stumbling over themselves to curry favor with Massa and Missus, that they refuse to see all that black Americans have contributed to this country, both past and present. That so many non-black people are so willing to kiss the white man and woman’s ass, and allow themselves to be used, at black people’s expense, no longer upsets me. The message that Africans send to the white man is: “Don’t worry, Massa, we won’t rock the boat. We won’t challenge you on racism/segregation. We would rather attack black Americans, who have done nothing wrong to us. We (Africans) would rather worship all things whiteness, especially if it means fucking over black Americans.”
But, there’s a funny thing about being this year’s Model Minority.
Eventually you will become Next Year’s Nigger.
Kicked to the side after the white man has gotten all he can from you in your allowing yourself to be used against black Americans.
And just as Africans allow themselves to be used, they are creating hell and turmoil between themselves and black Americans.
And they too will eventually be kicked to the curb when Massa has used them up. Only thing is some of them are too busy being hateful towards black Americans to see that they (Africans) are allowing themselves to be used and allowing themselves to be made as laughingstocks before the worlds eyes.
On the issue of black people having “diluted blood”.
Guess who is guilty of that besides the white man?
Yep, you guessed it.
Greedy hateful black Africans whose ancestors hail from present-day Nigeria, Ghana, etc.
Those greedy haters sold my black ancestors into slavery to the white man. And with the rapes on slave ships, the rapes during slavery, the rapes during segregation all the way up to the early 1970s, we owe the rapist white blood that flows in our veins not only to white rapists, but, also to greedy money-hungry black Africans whose ancestors sold us into slavery.
So, as to our so-called diluted blood, it was the fault of America AND Africans.
And if America has to pay reparations to black America, then too, so should present-day black Africa of Western Sub-Saharan Africa also have to pay.
Just like white-run America cannot cop an attitude toward black America, neither can black Africans cop an attitude towards black America.
America is not the only one who has blood on her hands in her cruelties toward black America.
So too does black Africa have blood on her hands towards us as well. Lots of it.
And like America, black Africa can never begin to repay the hells that greed-filled African haters did to black Americans.
“Ok, is it me or is someone ignoring the rather large purple elephant standing in the room? How can you write about pervasive stereotypes and not ask the crucial questions, like like, what are the origins of the stereotypes of African-Americans and Africans? And maybe, how and why are they still being perpetuated?”
Yes, Massa created those stereotypes.
But, there is no law that says that black Africans (or any other non-black race for that matter) have to belive them. No one held a knife to black Africans heads nor a knife to their throats to believe every lie the white man pollutes the world with.
To believe stereotypes against black Americans is worse than lazy. It is pure trifling that many non-blacks would rather believe what the white man said, instead of having the balls to think and reason for themselves.
I do see faults with the article, but I will say (I’m speaking from my experience and that of the African friends who moved here around the same time) that blatant discrimination from African-Americans was far worse than discrimination from any other group of Africans. I wouldn’t say “racism” because “African” isn’t a race nor is “African American.”
I grew up in a very diverse area. My parents chose to live in this overpriced area because of these qualities, yet for most of the six years I spent in the American public school system, people would say that I had AIDS (which is untrue, but if I did, it’s still crazy to me that someone would yell that at someone walking down a hallway in a supposedly forward-thinking school in America in the late 1990s), call me a monkey, make fun of my accent and my name, spew all sorts of ignorant crap about my country and Africa as a whole and physically attack me. This was ALL from middle to upper-middle class African-American students who have been around people of different backgrounds enough to know better. While others laughed, the instigators were always African-American. The only black friends I had were African and West Indian. I’m sure other students did or said things behind my back or even to my face that the blatant hatred I was experiencing blinded me to. I have to make a very conscious effort to befriend long-time Americans because it seems like most of the people I’m drawn to are first or second-generation people of color who get it.
Of course one experience isn’t representative of everyone else’s. My sense is that it’s not uncommon among my friends. Even things people say in jest are insulting. My best friend is Jamaican. Her two roommates who are smart African-American women are always making all sorts of insulting comments that they find hilarious. It’s not. It’s just rude.
Re above comments on Nigerian woman:
I find that Africans (and Asians) come into America with a lot of preconceptions about African-Americans based on American and British movies, TV shows, music videos and the negative reports of Africans who return to their home countries. The only non-negative images I ever saw of African-Americans before the age of 12 was from The Cosby Show. When I moved here, I feared that my black classmates would be doing drugs, shooting each other, etc. Four months of carefully monitored TV watching (Family Matters, Fresh Prince, etc) changed that dramatically, maybe even setting up too high standards for African-Americans to live up to in my head. Draw from that what you will about the impact of the media.
I can’t even count the number of times I’ve told my parents to stop saying ignorant things
Canarsie is a neighborhood worth studying in this regard – lots of West Indians moving in in an African American neighborhood and big time tension, I am there quite often and see it in action.
Also, I am sorry admin, but I have to say, Ann’s post is off the charts.
My name is Madalena and I’m both Angolan and Italian citizens. I’m currently living in DC but before that I lived in Italy and graduated in London. Since the majority of blacks that immigrated to Italy are of African origin, it was in London were I got first hand the misconceptions between black of African origin and blacks of Caribbean origin mostly. However, at diference of what happen in America the tensions between this two groups was less strong because many have tried to talk with those considered Africans and change their opinion about them. However, generally black people in Europe understand that whites will always try to divide us because if were join forces we can represent a threat to them, thus, the idea is to keep us not united but fighting with each other.
black americans should take advantage of the presence of Africans here to talk, ask question. Africans know and understand black americans behave sometimes in ways that is not appropriate with Africans because they were taught to behave that way, they were taught to think that Africans are inferiors and uncivilised and in many ocasion they just behave in the way they do because they do not want to be seen as uncilised, inferiors. However, black americans need to understand that whites indeed think and believe they are all the same, in order words, we are all inferiors. You just have to look at racism of whites against blacks in Brazil, Colombia and others parts of Latin-America, Carribean as is the case of Dominican Republic where black Haitian are strongly discriminated because their skin is much darker. I believe that part of this misconceptions between black americans have also to do with our history as people. You guys were told that Africans sold you, when in fact, the majority slaves were not sold by their own brother. There is a lot that could be said about that and there are materials written by whites that can prove that. Finally, black americans need to know that if many Africans have their doors to black American, we understand what you all had to go through all these centuries, but believe me my brothers those current born in Africa are still the consequences of white domination in the continent. We can make Africa a better place for all of us. It will take many years but it will come the time when Africa, a continent blessed with all the resources whites needs to survive will be a better place and will be able to ask all the blacks in the diaspora to return.
TALK, ASK AND YOU WILL DISCOVER THAT AFRICANS DO NOT HAVE OTHER BUT LOVE TO BLACK AMERICANS AND ALL OTHER BLACKS IN THE DIASPORA. I’M VERY PROUD OF YOU AND I LOVE YOU.
My name is Madalena and I’m both Angolan and Italian citizens. I’m currently living in DC but before that I lived in Italy and graduated in London. Since the majority of blacks that immigrated to Italy are of African origin, it was in London were I got first hand the misconceptions between black of African origin and blacks of Caribbean origin mostly. However, at diference of what happen in America the tensions between this two groups was less strong because many have tried to talk with those considered Africans and change their opinion about them. However, generally black people in Europe understand that whites will always try to divide us because if were join forces we can represent a threat to them, thus, the idea is to keep us not united but fighting with each other.
black americans should take advantage of the presence of Africans here to talk, ask question. Africans know and understand black americans behave sometimes in ways that is not appropriate with Africans because they were taught to behave that way, they were taught to think that Africans are inferiors and uncivilised and in many ocasion they just behave in the way they do because they do not want to be seen as uncivilised, inferiors. However, black americans need to understand that whites indeed think and believe we are all the same, in order words, we are all inferiors. You just have to look at racism of whites against blacks in Brazil, Colombia and others parts of Latin-America, Carribean as is the case of Dominican Republic where black Haitian are strongly discriminated because their skin is much darker. I believe that part of this misconceptions between black americans have also to do with our history as people. You guys were told that Africans sold you, when in fact, the majority slaves were not sold by their own brother. There is a lot that could be said about that and there are materials written by whites that can prove that. Finally, black americans need to know that if many Africans have THEIR DOORS OPEN to black American, we understand what you all had to go through all these centuries, but believe me my brothers those currently born in Africa are still suffering the consequences of the continuos white domination in the continent. We can and we will make Africa a better place for all BLACK PEOPLE. It will take many years but it will come the time when Africa, a continent blessed with all the resources whites needs to survive will be a better place and will be able to ask all the blacks in the diaspora to return.
TALK, ASK AND YOU WILL DISCOVER THAT AFRICANS DO NOT HAVE OTHER BUT LOVE TO BLACK AMERICANS AND ALL OTHER BLACKS IN THE DIASPORA. I’M VERY PROUD OF YOU AND I LOVE YOU. lena.lari@libero.it
Wow Ann, your post definitely makes me as an African feel very welcome and warmed by your not at all prejudiced and irrational anger [based on prior bad experiences]. The issue of men sleeping with women and not marrying them is not solely an African-African American dichotomy. It happens with men all over the world thinking certain women are good enough to sleep with but not to marry.I am sorry if you have felt personally slighted by African men, I tend to chalk circumstances like that down to poor personal taste or judgment rather than use it as a cultural descriptor… but that’s just me.
Personally, I have a significant number of family members married to African American women [in happy and successful unions] and thank goodness their perspectives are nothing like the vitriol you spew.
Also, for me the fact that you did not have the moral strength to refuse to let someone cheat off you, whether he was black or not is more indicative of your values than of his laziness or stupidity. In fact I could argue that he wasn’t that stupid after all, as he was able to talk you into letting him copy off you and gain a grade he hadn’t worked for.
I take issue with your entire post – but especially with the following:
Dont worry, Massa, we wont rock the boat. We wont challenge you on racism/segregation. We would rather attack black Americans, who have done nothing wrong to us. We (Africans) would rather worship all things whiteness, especially if it means fucking over black Americans.
If your post is an example of ‘having done nothing wrong’ well then excuse me for misunderstanding your welcoming nature.
I do believe there is a great level of miscommunication between Africans and African Americans. I think part of it stems from pure identity issues, I think there is level of stability with being black that you get from being African [not saying this doesn't occur in other black dominated or black countries]; I say this because being African, though I may sometimes engage with tribal questions, I never have a problem identifying as black African. I may not be explaining it properly but I think there is something innate that Africans gain from coming from a continent or country peopled by black people. Sure there are problems with the legacy of colonialism and corruption, but questions of slavery, racism and representation are engaged with in a totally different manner than how they are faced in North America.
So no, we may not always challenge racism or segregation, but that is not because we would rather worship all things whiteness. Sometimes it is because we do not notice it as such; sometimes it is because we do not see the need to dignify it with a response; sometimes we would rather compete and make people have to confront their unfounded biases; and other times, when we feel it’s warranted, we protest from the f-ing rooftops.
I resent commentaries that try to paint Africans as some sort of monolithic whole, model minority or anything of the sort. We are varied, different, haughty sometimes and have very different experiences. Yes there are some of us who are lazy and exploitative but that is not a cultural phenomenon… it extends to all groups.
Ann, comments like yours almost make me feel sorry for the experiences you must have had to make you feel that way. But I have to stop myself from any empathy or sympathy because you didn’t address anything proper about what was mentioned in the article, you just took the opportunity to go off on an African-hating rant, I figure even if you hadn’t had any bad experiences, you would have found something else to confirm your prejudices.
Great post. Now seriously, how many journalists have you ever read with a sufficient knowledge base to even scratch the surface of this multi-faceted topic. You’ve done an excellent job of sifting.
Obama for President!!
Tension exist between immigrants and Natives.
I am an African American with a twin brother and we discuss politics and race alot. Once an African immigrant once explained to my brother in colledge a few years ago that many American Blacks say that they would want to return to africa. The immigrants responce was “Most African Americans Simply would not survive” My brother and I Have great respect for Africans immigrants because they have experienced the Third world. That experience I believe makes them very strong because even American ghettos seem like an upgrade to where they come from tecnologically. Our ghettos still have clean running water and electricity. In the third world these things are less common. So when people immigrate from these circumstances and work in America tend to work hard. Not all immigrants work hard but enough do so that Americans do little to close the borders.
I have met many African immigrants who look down on African Americans in the same way that many of my Mexican friends look down on Chicanos as less hard working and European immigrants look down on American White people.
When I have hard work to do aroud my house I look to employ immigrants. I believe that it is a fact that they tend to get the job done with quality at a lower price.
Obama for president!!!
[...] Rachel’s Tavern: How Not To Talk About African Relations With African Americans [...]
Ann’s post is absolutely and totally ON POINT.
I’m glad that she posted that message because it needed to be said. All of the FALSE superiority, lies, arrogance, tribalism and just general everyday BS that Africans bring to America with them is completely laughable. Laughable.
Everything that Ann posted is accurate. I’ve seen it with my own eyes on many occasions. And I agree with her. Also, based on my own personal observations I honestly believe that Africans are truly jealous of Black Americans. You will be hard pressed to find an African that will honestly admit that, but it’s clearly obvious by their actions toward Black Americans.
The Africans that I’ve known were from several countries(Nigeria,Ghana,Liberia, Kenya,etc.) through out the African continent. These people came from different cultures and backgrounds, but they all had one thing in common. They were all literally SHOCKED when they met and got to know me.
I come from a “blue collar/middle class” background. My parents are married(have been for 40 years)and raised their children in a stable,loving household. I can speak and write English clearly. I also speak German. I was a serious engineering student in college and graduated on time. Now, I’m a fully employed engineer with almost 10 years experience in my field of engineering. I’m about to begin graduate school. I have respect for others and myself. I’ve never been arrested. Never used drugs. I don’t drink. I don’t have children because I haven’t gotten married yet. I have a clear view of who I’am and where I want to go in life.
What was and is so SHOCKING to the so called “Intelligent, Cultured, Superior-minded, Educated” Africans that I know is the following.
I’m a Black American Man.
I will NEVER identify myself as an “African American”. To do so would be self insulting. Not from just a nationalistic standpoint, but simply because I have absolutely nothing in common with the Africans I’ve known and know.
Thanks for your post Ann. Continue to speak the truth.
Respect to you.
If I had to guess, I’d expect the article author would defend it as being a “fresh angle,” you know, -everyone- knows about white-on-black racism, but this, why, this is something that isn’t covered so much, so let’s run with it.
of course, under that lies a lot of…assumptions. and as you note, there are other reasons for making it sound as though the -primary- problem was internecine tension without really connecting it to good ol’ white-on-black racism.
but i’m guessing that’d be the explanation.
When I have hard work to do aroud my house I look to employ immigrants. I believe that it is a fact that they tend to get the job done with quality at a lower price.
um….yay?
i mean, though, um, ah…oh, skip it, i guess.
eesh.
Its definitely true about the “upgrade” thing. When my family moved here in 1991 from Nigeria, we lived in an ghetto-as-you-can-get part of Atlanta, but my parents tell me that at first it was still amazing to them, until they got a little more wise to the going-ons in the neighborhood.
And I can definitely attest to the most obvious racism Africans face are from African Americans. I’m in college, and almost all of my friends are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from Asia, and some from Africa too. My upper-middle class African American boyfriend who is super smart and reads like a bookworm makes soooo many ignorant comments about Africa it drives me crazy. I feel conflicted b/c if it was a non-Black person saying the stuff that he and some AA say I definitely would have dropped them from my friend list long ago. You could say I’m the typical immigrant “oreo”, but guess I feel such a need to be “accepted” by a Black community that I just smile and let the racist asinine ignorant comments they say slide. I’ve gotten stupid comments from white people too, but maybe because they’ve learned to be cautious around people of color they think twice before spewing out so much ignorant shit.
I recently went on a trip to the Bahamas, and for some reason I expected in an all black nation they’d be a little more educated about where the hell we came from. WRONG! When people found out I was from Nigeria, I still got the same ignorant shit about lions and tigers and AIDS, and whats more they went on and on about how they had no desire whatsoever to visit Africa, and how they don’t even consider themselves African at all. I even met this one lady who went on and on how “those Africans” (what the hell is she?) had such dark skin and whatnot, and how she met her “first real live one” last year and kept wanting to touch their skin–keep in mind this lady’s skin tone was about the same as Oprahs! Uggh! I felt like breaking mirror over her head so maybe she’d catch a glimpse of her own damn skin color.
I think another thing that is responsible for the resentment some Africans have towards AA besides stereotypes is that most African immigrants arrive in the US poor and live in segregated AA inner city neighborhoods, and as a result their first experiences with American racism is with Black people. White people, on the other hand, would fawn over our clothes and accents and go out of their way to make my family feel welcome(even though looking back it was probably just as racist). When my family first came to America, we became homeless due to an HBCU falling through on paying my father for research he did with them, and probably would have stayed like that if not for a white Mennonite family essentially “rescuing us” and finding us a place to live with an old white lady at their church with 5 cats. Even when my dad explained our situation, the people my dad worked with at the HBCU did nothing to help us, despite no doubt, being well connected to Black churches and charities in the area.
hi Anu, Im also a nigerian my parents are nigerian immigrants and my sisters and I were born here in america, im in college and my sister and I attend mass. college of pharamcy studying pharmacy. I agree and sympathize with everything your saying. First of all I’ve been through the same discrimination as you mentioned when I was young by african americans because of my heritage( even with that I never taunted or made fun of them because I don’t see the gain I just distanced my self from most of them), that most of my friends are african, caribbean, indian, and asian descent(first, second, third generation, and etc). At the same time I do have a few african american friends that are nice, goal oriented and have a respect for africa,but I love my culture,so the question I have to ask is why are you going out with a black american boy and why are you so surprised that he’s as narrow minded as you say he is?, there are many nigerian doctors, lawyers, and engineers you can go out with, what are you gaining from the relationship, do you want your children to grow up like that(especially saying nigger, singing to pop lock and drop it, not goal oriented, in essence becoming like them) and your nigerian culture to be lost in that generartion If you end up with a AA, let me tell you your not gaining .Don’t misunderstand me I don’t hate african americans I think many of them are good people and I think the only relationship we should be having with them is in a friendship basis but we should distance ourselves from them in a relationship-marriage basis, and I also feel their way of life and value system(some of them have no interest in education and progress, especially their men) should be left with them, not integrated into our culture(especially that you were born in nigeria). For me my parents will never allow it and I will never marry one because I don’t want my culture to be messed up. As for this argument about the divide between africans and african americans to me, it will keep on going on so this argument is not worth our time. I feel we africans need to find ways we can advance ourselves, live comfortably and not suffer. please Anu stay with your own.
anonymous,
Just because a few African Americans taunted you doesn’t mean that it is acceptable to distance yourself from most African Americans. Is that not a prejudiced type of reaction?
You also went on to say, “I do have a few african american friends that are nice, goal oriented and have a respect for africa,but I love my culture,so the question I have to ask is why are you going out with a black american boy and why are you so surprised that hes as narrow minded as you say he is?, there are many nigerian doctors, lawyers, and engineers you can go out with, what are you gaining from the relationship, do you want your children to grow up like that(especially saying nigger, singing to pop lock and drop it, not goal oriented, in essence becoming like them) and your nigerian culture to be lost in that generartion If you end up with a AA, let me tell you your not gaining.Dont misunderstand me I dont hate african americans I think many of them are good people and I think the only relationship we should be having with them is in a friendship basis but we should distance ourselves from them in a relationship-marriage basis, and I also feel their way of life and value system(some of them have no interest in education and progress, especially their men) should be left with them, not integrated into our culture(especially that you were born in nigeria).”
You know the White supremacist and KKK folks would say the same crap about your black self, too. You’re buying hook line and sinker into an ideology that is detrimental to you as a black person. You can play the I’m Nigerian I’m not black card all you want, but when you go for job interviews, when you drive down the street, or when you go to a restaurant, you just as black as any African American.
I’m not done. I think this needs to be an entire post.
I’m a South African born of Xhosa tribal heritage. I’ve read many negative stories here about black people whether from America,Carribean and Africa. i find one common denominator to all these stories, self hate. we africans or african diaspora are living is a world that associate black(or african origin) with everything that is ugly and undesirable. you can go anywhere in the world its the same. now with this view in the world why can’t we africans come together and rebuild our continent for the sake of our children. and for those that emigrate to 1st world(US) why don’t you come back to Africa and rebuild your countries because everytime an african leaves africa to contribute to other nations africa looses. what about the future of our children. Now its time to act.
Ok I leave in England of nigerian percentage. I would refer to myself as Black British not Nigerian or African.
To Ann and Victor I am truely sorry for the
experiences you had at the hands of people from Nigeria & Ghana. I know first hand how nasty they can be sometimes.
I think Black Americans have a wonderful culture I do not buy into any stereotypes about any race, culture and if people do then they are stupid.
There are equal number of lazy people Nigerians as well as Black Amercians.
Africans should apologise to Black Africans for their involvement in the slave trade, Ann & Victor again I am TURELY SORRY.
If you vist Nigeria people their take drugs and have babies out of wedlock!!
The media focus on stereotypes black Amercians are lazy and Africans are uneducated and stupid people. Why do people on both sides buy into WHY??!!
As me as someone of Nigerian percenatge I will be friends with anyone and marry anyone; Black Amercian or otherwise regardless of culture or stereotypes.
So Ann posting on July 9th, 2007 3:45 pm we not all the same. and you never know Victor posting on July 14th, 2007 3:43 pm we may have something in common.
Wendy,
You asked a very good question. Why do people on both sides buy into stereotypes???
To hide the truth about themselves.
To attempt to acquire some kind of false identity.
To live up to a fake image.
To be a part of the group because of the fear to stand alone.
Good ole fashioned Hatred.
Mentally lazy.
Ignorant and proud to be so.
All of the above and many, many other reasons may apply.
I believe that stereotypes are nothing more than diversions, racial stereotypes especially. I feel that racial stereotypes are created to camoflouge the real identity issues within the person or group of people that create it. It’s a great way to hide.
There is a VERY serious problem with the interactions between Black Americans and Black Africans in the United States. The reasons for this problem are as varied as the different individuals that make up each group.
But, there is one fact that does not vary, in my opinion. That is the fact that all of these stereotypes need to be confronted and exposed for the lies that they are.
Racism of any kind should never be ignored. It has to be resisted. I don’t believe that it is a question of eliminating racism. Elimination will not take place. To me, it’s a question of exposing it and those that promote it. If you just walk away from it I feel that you only increase it’s power.
Wendy, what is the racial climate like for Blacks in the UK?
Thanks for your message.
wendy, why do you feel the need to lie. am married to a nigerian, having children out of wedlock that is simple the biggest lie i have ever heard about nigerians. they are very culture people that hold on to there culture believes.
my guess you are caribbean. as for taking drugs that just another lie.
there have been tension between the caribbeans community and the african in england for the longs time. wendy please dont lie to make yourself feel better about you afro.carribean culture.
in UK and the usa, studies have shown that african are the group with the highest qualifications, especially nigerians and ghanians. at GCSE and A level children with africa parent perform very well at these level, they are at the same level as the india and chinese. if you dont believe google it.
wendy why are you stereotyping african,
i dont believe that caribbean are criminals, that carries knives, and never wants to go to university and takes drugs and feed of the government, because that is the reputation that they have in the UK.
wendy dont buy all those bulshit. and dont ridicule african to make your feel better.
alot of african respect and understand the injustice that AAs go through in american.
God African american and blacks all over the world.
hehe,we are all black people.
What is your definition of a BLACK person?